Experience with smarkets.com?

[jimbob2011]

Currently all trading patterns are welcomed at Smarkets, including winning accounts. However to help ensure the growth of the exchange we will, at times, try to come to arrangements that can benefit all parties involved. This is, of course, in addition to signing on more market makers and other types of customer who can further increase liquidity in our markets.

We are lucky to have a number of professional winning traders who understand that it is in everybody's best long term interests to help grow a stable exchange that can be a viable alternative to other options. While we realise that every new trader through the door may not be willing to come to a compromise we do not take this as a case for account suspension at all. Hope that clears things up.

In my experience if they write to you asking you to adjust your trading style and you say no, they will likely continue to write to you for 19 days in a row, and pester you on the site's live chat feature until you either comply or say something like i'm going to make a complaint to the LGA about this, in which case they will use it as a tenuous excuse to get rid of you. The irony is that closing people's accounts for threatening to complain to the LGA is probably a matter worthy of a complaint to LGA in isolation.

So if you're profitable on Smarkets then just ignore their emails requesting you to adapt your trading style (to a presumably less profitable one) and you should be fine.

I continue to profess my innocence and will ramble on about this for as long as I need to, until either my account is restored as a gesture of goodwill to professional traders everywhere, or Smarkets remodel into a fixed odds European book that is not ashamed of excluding winners.

By the way if I was £100,000 in the hole to their market makers and I threatened to make a complaint to the LGA there is 0.00000% chance I would have been closed down.

[jimbob2011]

Just re-read this.

Unless you are operating in breach of you license with these market makers, how can it actually be under threat?

And subsequently why on earth would you need to block a customer who is well within his rights to complain.

I believe they're just trying to divert attention from the real issue here. Thankfully both yourself and Peter are able to see the wood from the trees and I doubt either of you will be cutting cards for their services anytime soon. I would suggest that Matchbook and WBX are more serious pro-friendly alternatives for the time being, even if Smarkets is ahead of them in terms of "artificial" liquidity.

For the record i'm not in the habit of kicking up a stink, I generally just go about my trading quietly and occasionally browse these forums, but I felt that Smarkets management had handled my situation so badly that it was worthy of public attention.

Hopefully the reaction from these boards will force them into positive action sooner rather than later, but i'm not holding my breath.

The ball's in your court Smarkets.......

[The Geek]

Hi everybody,

Just to clarify, the reason this users' account was suspended was because he threatened our licence and, in turn, our business. This left us with no choice other than to take action in line with our Terms & Conditions.

Just re-read this.

Unless you are operating in breach of you license with these market makers, how can it actually be under threat?

And subsequently why on earth would you need to block a customer who is well within his rights to complain?

[The Geek]

Has anyone had their account blocked by you for making money from your market makers or not?

No

Many thanks for the answer to half the question, but the actual question was...

Has anyone had their account blocked by you for making money from your market makers or not?
{ or whatever this guy is generally claiming }
{ A simple yes or no will do. }

You approached me a few days ago with the request to set up an account on these forums because in your words "I noticed some of your users had some questions/misinformation about Smarkets, the betting exchange I work for."

I have asked you the same simple question 3 times now yet you seem at pains to actually give a straight answer to it. So from this we can only assume by your inability to answer a simple question that what this guy is telling us is on the level, and that you are blocking accounts for winning from your market makers.

[Mickey Pearce]

Smarkets gone very quiet on this matter.

[jimbob2011]

From the earlier posts I got the impression the suspension didn't come due to threats:


This betting exchange didn't denied the message, so I guess the threat issue was an attempt to deviate attention from what was originally argued.

Cheers

They were threatening closure long before I even mentioned making a complaint to the LGA, so as I see it Smarkets management have been quite dishonest with the members of this board.

Moreover since when did complaining to a third party such as a licensing authority or ombudsman warrant ones custom being refused? Imagine if I complained to the ombudsman about the price of my heating bills and my energy supplier decided that my complaint justified cutting off my supply!

The fact remains that the readers of this forum and Peters forum, probably collectively turnover a minimum of £100,000,000 a year on Betfair, and understandably Smarkets is keen to attract that business to their exchange. Yet I feel that they have been rather dishonest and misleading in their public handling of this situation, and I continue to feel that my account closure is grossly unjustified. It's quite simply a case of kicking out those who know too much.

If winners truly are welcome then please prove that to us all by immediately reopening my account.

However if you wish to stand by your public claim that my account was terminated for threatening to complain to the licensing authority then that's one of the most tenuous justifications I have ever heard, and I would advise everyone to give this company a wide berth until they get a handle on their internal business ethics. I personally would never conduct myself in business that way, and I think everyone on this forum appreciates that sometimes as a consumer you need to threaten to refer a matter to a third party in order to get a company to stop acting in a unfair manner. It's completely within our rights as consumers, and your licensing authority state that it is within the right of every player on your site also.

I therefore urge you to show us that you are a serious and fair rival to Betfair by taking some positive steps to resolve this situation amicably. I will happily report back to the boards if a positive and mutually beneficial offer is forthcoming from Smarkets.

I think we all just long for an exchange where winners are genuinely :Welcome

[pmcpi]

I think the issue was that he started to threaten them.
How we perceive a threat and how a business employing a few lawyers interpret a threat through law is different
I think he has been silly. Somewhere down the line he was given an agreement which was advantageous to him.

From the earlier posts I got the impression the suspension didn't come due to threats:

Originally Posted by Smarkets CEO email to james19
James,

It appears I'm not being clear. I'm asking you to stop trading until you provide liquidity or until I can get more liquidity providers. I understand the principles of free markets but we are a small startup who has not yet reached critical mass.

I will put a freeze on your account if I have to but I'm asking nicely. I think I've been pretty honest with you. I would appreciate some courtesy.

Jason

This betting exchange didn't denied the message, so I guess the threat issue was an attempt to deviate attention from what was originally argued.

Cheers

[jimbob2011]

I think the issue was that he started to threaten them.
How we perceive a threat and how a business employing a few lawyers interpret a threat through law is different
I think he has been silly. Somewhere down the line he was given an agreement which was advantageous to him.

No agreement was ever offered. Nor did I threaten them. I just said that I would report the matter to the LGA as there was (and still is) a clear conflict of interest here between two supposed independent parties coming together to match bets.

Betfair didn't kick anyone out for complaining to the LGA about the premium charge, so IMHO Smarkets are being the silly ones here.

[Rocket to the FACE]

Bottomline, you don't welcome certain winners. Because if this user's style got him losing 20 grand, I really doubt that this debacle would arise.

I think the issue was that he started to threaten them.
How we perceive a threat and how a business employing a few lawyers interpret a threat through law is different
I think he has been silly. Somewhere down the line he was given an agreement which was advantageous to him.

[Rocket to the FACE]

Like I said, there was more to this.

If you dare enter into an agreement with any business you make sure you are covered. They look like friends. They might act like friends but as soon as it turns sour they will destroy you. When you deal with a business you deal with people but they are controlled by an emotionless entity whos sole desire is to make money - ethics don't even come close.

Personally, I'd have withdrawn the 25k, accepted their new terms and continued to make money. If you didn't like that, you should have walked after you withdrew your balance.

All of this does bring to attention the fact that Betfair are involved in far more such deals - lets think about that.

[pmcpi]

Well, it's a waste of time trying to argue with a company about their behavior.

I'm disappointed how things have gone through, because I had the believe that something new could be brought to the marketplace.

I trade on betfair, but have the P.C. charges kicking in, so I split my trading on betdaq. In my ideal betting world, I would trade at every exchange. But these kind of situations wouldn't let me even waste my time trying to adapt to an exchange which doesn't guarantee me a place in the long-term. Having to adapt my trading style for the sake of the company? A company that receives my money, my generated commission, and asks for a change in trading style? A person builds a style through the years, it's not something that can be changed from night to day.

Bottomline, you don't welcome certain winners. Because if this user's style got him losing 20 grand, I really doubt that this debacle would arise.

[lcredd]

With the PC at Betunfair, and Daq having liquidity issues, an alternative exchange is in great demand. However, I can't see Smarkets being a real contender if one man can threaten their whole business. The only way he could threaten them, really, is by winning too much money. This isn't a good advert for Smarkets.

[Mickey Pearce]

Smarkets what do you say to that?

[jimbob2011]

Hmmmmm?!

I made no formal agreement with Smarkets

But you made a verbal agreement with them? Yes?

Not really, I sent a whatsapp message (how very .com startup) to the CEO saying that we should seek to clarify terms of use, because I can't go on trading while trying to second guess what types of bet you deem acceptable, and what types of bet you deem unacceptable and unsustainable to the market making ecosystem. My message was marked as read, but I didn't receive a direct response.

[Mickey Pearce]

Hmmmmm?!

I made no formal agreement with Smarkets

But you made a verbal agreement with them? Yes?