Clint - football trade

[westerner]

Feel the same way to Gun - don't see why so many on here get wound up about tipping services/websites. People should be free to make their own choices and there's a need to be careful of not tarnishing 'all' with the same brush.

If I signed up to one and it didn't deliver I'd just stop my subscription...simples.

Getting Bingo's point of view was a refreshing change imo.

[ForeTwo]

This is getting away from the initial topic but to the experienced trader/punter most services are scams....to newbies they are the holy grail.

There is so much BS in the industry that legit vendors should welcome some criticism as it should allow them to stand out from the cons/scams.

Back to the strategy, it was questioned and logical arguments about hedging across markets and taking poor value prices was put forward and it was rebuffed by words. It could be been a great time to post some real stats and prove the doubters wrong.

[inandout]

I have only browsed the thread so am wide open to criticism but how are all these, how many there are I don't know, subscribers taking/achieving the best possible prices for their trades which will enable them to make a profit?
Or are they just backing 1-1...........etc as cover regardless of price?
It's very easy to manipulate figures with 'cover bets' given that the 'seller' can say they got on a scoreline at, say, 8 but a subscriber could have got on at 7.2 backing the same scoreline...........to cut to the chase it's easy to be doing the same 'bets' yet the 'seller' plus a minority of subscribers be winning yet the majority be losing despite doing exactly as it says on the tin.
Newbies are free to pay for services if they so wish but they should understand it's difficult enough to profit as it stands without paying out subs.
People, if they are prepared to work hard, may make a 1% profit on turnover after commission and if they can turn over 500k a month they will be sitting pretty but taking just one tick, on average, less can turn that 1% profit into a loss quite easily.

[bingo little]

I have only browsed the thread so am wide open to criticism but how are all these, how many there are I don't know, subscribers taking/achieving the best possible prices for their trades which will enable them to make a profit?
Or are they just backing 1-1...........etc as cover regardless of price?
It's very easy to manipulate figures with 'cover bets' given that the 'seller' can say they got on a scoreline at, say, 8 but a subscriber could have got on at 7.2 backing the same scoreline...........to cut to the chase it's easy to be doing the same 'bets' yet the 'seller' plus a minority of subscribers be winning yet the majority be losing despite doing exactly as it says on the tin.
Newbies are free to pay for services if they so wish but they should understand it's difficult enough to profit as it stands without paying out subs.
People, if they are prepared to work hard, may make a 1% profit on turnover after commission and if they can turn over 500k a month they will be sitting pretty but taking just one tick, on average, less can turn that 1% profit into a loss quite easily.

As I mentioned in fairness in a previous post, the best possible price could have gone in the time it takes for me to identify a particular in-play move and then relaying it to members live in the chat room. The difference as you say between a couple of ticks will disadvantage some.
But this is part of a learning curve which we all have gone through. The most valuable aspect of a subscription based trading service is in the training, not necessarily winning every trade. Some will pick up the reasons for what moves are made when & why a lot quicker than others. And your point about "hard work" is very pertinent here; it is part of human nature - and no more evident than in the gambling world - that people want easy, quick answers. All I would want from a service ( call it what you will - tipping, training, educational, scamming, cheating, rip off) is a clear outline of how the bloody thing works!
Newbies - and I mean people who just about know what back & lay means - desire information. They have the choice to go wherever they want to find this. It could just as easily be forums like this where there is, I`m sure, a wealth of freely available knowledge & expertise. Generally speaking bespoke services offer a greater ease to the subscriber of finding that information. That would be one good reason for subscribing. It takes a lot of the hard work and research away from him doing it himself. Remember too most people have full time jobs so their time is too short to engage in the search for the mass of relevant information out there.
The downside to such paid for services is the turnaround of subscribers is high. They join, absorb as much info as they want, and decide they can now set off on their own. In the time they have spent with their hand held and guided through the countless different possible approaches to trading, they make the choice to leave or stay.
I reply in this vein - apologies for repetition here - only to ask the naysayers not to tarnish all paid for services with the same brush. As an owner of such a service I am bound to defend my own; but I also am aware that it may not be suitable for everyone. People`s expectations vary.
As to the quality and merits of any given subscriber service I extended my participation in this discussion because the criticism of one particular strategy evolved very quickly (and in my opinion unfairly and unnecessarily) into an all out condemnation of paid for services. Fortunately, somewhere in the middle of this battlefield, there were some salient and reasoned arguments about different approaches to trading

[inandout]

So to summarise......you're charging them to tell them back high lay low or lay low back high in a long drawn out way?

[ForeTwo]

Maybe a separate thread should be opened to discuss education/tipping/scam services.

Bingo can you post the strike rate, ave win and ave lose from this strategy over a decent sample size.

To end this debate you should post stats to prove that this strategy has a proven edge or one can only assume that this doesn't beat the market over the long term.

[inandout]

I've said before on this forum that the Football Cash Generator was the most profitable system ever for me over a 30 month period.
It wasn't following the flawed system it was laying the draw after a goal was scored when the masses were desperately backing the draw to lock in their profit forcing the draw price down far below true levels. Those were happy days for me, unfortunately all good things, usually, come to an end.

[westerner]

This is getting away from the initial topic but to the experienced trader/punter most services are scams....to newbies they are the holy grail.

Just don't see how you're in a position to say that unless you've tried 'most' services, and why do you presume that newbies think they're the holy grail?

A lot of assumptions there I suspect and it reminds me of the doom and gloom merchants that used to frequent the Betfair forum with their sirens that 'it can't be done!'

Yes, I'm sure that there are those out there offering services which are mediocre at best but it's very easy to dismiss things we don't understand.

Maybe because it makes ourselves feel better about our own results?

[ForeTwo]

I will stand by that general assumption and it based on my own experiences when I was starting out and then subsequently being around this industry and the financial markets for a few years (which also suffers from a glut of scammers/vendors).

Its not the mediocre services that worry me.....

I would rather every new trader was cynical and initially trusted no one - it would kill off the whole scamming industry. Again I would say that dishonest vendors outweigh the honest.

My first reply was a bit sarcastic but my follow up questions were very valid. I would of been happy to concede to a proven statistical edge.

This has nothing to do with my own results, if anything this is me trying to repay the community.

[custard]

Does anyone on here trade football matches using this well know strategy?

Ive been trialing it for a while with mixed results, im struggling to know what to do when the match starts to go against you i.e. 0-0 late on or even 1-0

can anyone help a newbie?

This is the original post on this thread. We are still awaiting an answer from those who provide a "service".

[inandout]

1980hodgy
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Bingo

I was the originator of the original post before signing up to your site, i think for those that are members of the site understand why we have insurance on different markets.

Being part of the community od the trading football website i have learnt alot and im looking forward to trading during the new season.

Id forgot about this original post otherwise Id have commented back to rubbish a few comments.

again trading is about protecting the bank as well as trying to get that all important green screen.

With the complete lack of decent football I still have a small profit even after the sign up fee, so for those who doubt the strategies I suggest actually using them before rubbishing them.



He doesn't need any more advice by the looks of things he's found the holy grail......or he's become an insurance salesman

[custard]

[inandout]

The earlier comments on this thread remind me of the old joke

'I was shopping the other day and was surprised to see they'd named a loaf after you.......................
but after closer inspection i realised it said thick cut'


That isn't directed at you by the way custard

[custard]

I've been called worse Clint was essential Saturday night viewing for me when I was a kid.

[gun]

The sequence of events here is quite simple :

(i) a guy asked for help using a strategy which he had identified as having weaknesses,

(ii) people gave genuine advice, especially relating to general trading, and did not confine themselves to rubbishing either the strategy or those who sold it, and, in my own case, I acknowledged the right of those to use such things if they wished,

(iii) the thread, after apparently running its natural course, was resurrected by those who had a vested interest in selling such things,

(iv) they "rode into town like gunfighters" and were "shot down".

At no time did they substantiate their claims that their strategy was either sensible or profitable. My own comments, and those of Cran and Thomson, were fair and deserved and, even now, remain unanswered.

No "high horses" here. Just honest guys "saying it as it is".

I love analysing simple things

i) Did the OP identify 'weaknesses' (note the plural) or was he asking how to handle one issue he'd found in-play?

ii) Thankfully the first response to the question was a masterclass in getting to the bottom of the strategy being asked about and offered a fair and balanced view of its originator. The OP was left in no doubt as to where he had gone wrong by the concluding sentence of a long and well thought out two line post .. ' Now, try to make your own strategy for success and stop giving First Aid to the terminally ill ones. ' I'll have to have a gander at the author's identity, as the style is somewhat at odds with Custard's account above

iii) Maybe. Maybe they just thought that a proper explanation of the question was in order, and that maybe a sensible debate might ensue. To a degree it did, but then the invective and the crying 'foul' started.

iv) OK. On a horse with no name, presumably.

On a less frivolous note I have some sympathy with Foretwo's questioning, but having said that, as Bingo has stated numerous times, the service in question is a lot more than the Clint or any other strategy, irrespective of the name applied. I'll leave it to Bingo and Ads to decide if / how they want to address that issue.

I'm not a full time trader, I sell cars. Most of the people in the chat room are hobbyists as far as I know, but there's a community spirit and good banter. If a few trades are advised and I decide to jump on then I'd like to think I'd be given the credit for being old enough and ugly enough to make my own decisions - whatever the quality and quantity of the outcome.

Someone has stated in this thread that the online betting / trading world is full of wannabes, keyboard warriors and Charlie Big Bollox. And so, funnily enough, is the world in general. There's room for all, and for differences of opinion. That's all I was suggesting ~ the heavy handed sarcasm above not withstanding