How many horse races per day?

[wolfstreet]

One for the serious traders.

Just wondered how many races do you trade per day?

Do you just trade UK races?

What is minimum amount of money in market do you look for, before trading?

Do you trade more than one race at a time? or just concentrate on one at a time?

Do you purely do pre-race OR during race? surely very dangerous during race?

Is it essential to be watching the races if you are a 'pre race' trader?

How much £ in account would you suggest to be able to trade seriously enough to make a good living?

Thanks.

[luckynumberslevin]

1) Never be too serious in life, it tends to get in the way of one's enjoyment.

2) As many as you are able while maintaining your concentration levels in a natural way as opposed to energy drinks and so on.

3). Generally yes although big races anywhere a market is offered should always be investigated.

4). Depends on what your objectives are and how big you wish to go. Sometimes with an illiquid market you can be the market.

5). one race at a time because times try not to clash but can trade upto 10 runners per race

6). bit of prerace if a big enough opportunity arises but lots of inplay as it is more challenging and exciting mentally.

7). no not at all but it can help with fundamentals

8). Tricky this one because it all depends what you want. Eg yesterday I was experimenting with a new idea using 2 & 4 pound stakes (balance at the beginning £50. ) After 5 hours I'd turned a 146 pound profit give or take some pennies mainly inplay . Scaling upto higher stakes would return a good income for sure . A lot of professional prerace traders will start with a bank of at least a grand upto around 30 grand increasing this amount when the big race meetings come about although getting big amounts through can be difficult because the market can be saturated with 'dead' money. Although this in itself can offer opportunity to those traders who regard themselves as able.


Good luck.

[wolfstreet]

TOP top reply. Thank you sir.

Just a few more.

Firstly , do you chaps have a strategy? or do you simply look for good entry and exit points etc?

You say you trade more than one horse per race? Could you elaborate on how you do this successfully? surely that could get confusing? do you trade up on one horse before opening up on another? sorry for the daft Q.


When we are talking pre-race ------ HOW soon is pre race? as in 1 hour before kick off? 5 minutes? 2 minutes?

Like first race is 2pm today, is mid day too early to start trading?

£2 and £4 stakes to take home 146 seems like a decent days work for a n00b like me

Help me.

Cheers

1) Never be too serious in life, it tends to get in the way of one's enjoyment.

2) As many as you are able while maintaining your concentration levels in a natural way as opposed to energy drinks and so on.

3). Generally yes although big races anywhere a market is offered should always be investigated.

4). Depends on what your objectives are and how big you wish to go. Sometimes with an illiquid market you can be the market.

5). one race at a time because times try not to clash but can trade upto 10 runners per race

6). bit of prerace if a big enough opportunity arises but lots of inplay as it is more challenging and exciting mentally.

7). no not at all but it can help with fundamentals

8). Tricky this one because it all depends what you want. Eg yesterday I was experimenting with a new idea using 2 & 4 pound stakes (balance at the beginning £50. ) After 5 hours I'd turned a 146 pound profit give or take some pennies mainly inplay . Scaling upto higher stakes would return a good income for sure . A lot of professional prerace traders will start with a bank of at least a grand upto around 30 grand increasing this amount when the big race meetings come about although getting big amounts through can be difficult because the market can be saturated with 'dead' money. Although this in itself can offer opportunity to those traders who regard themselves as able.


Good luck.

[luckynumberslevin]

'just a few more' - how i knew that line was coming!

8) you could call it a strategy but I'd prefer to use this word - understanding.
for me every race is unique so what i'm thinking has to be unique too

9) before each race i try to work out what will happen and which horses are worthy players. practice and experience and understanding allows me to keep in check those particular runners. trading each of those runners is about understanding the nature of what is happening against what you thought would happen. if the race is following your initial ideas then trading each horse will happen within different time frames. so you would be looking at the race as a fluid whole as opposed to a stop start trading event. this is of course in running. also take note of race time length. the sprints mean you must work and act quickly whereas a four mile chase allows you more time to breath.
prerace price movements are generally less erratic so you have more breathing space.

10) most traders will look at the market 10 minutes before the off. some traders will only commit money as more money arrives into the event say 5 mins before the race starts. others will make their profits in the last two minutes or last minute and many will mix. you could back or lay a horse early doors (morning)if you feel the market will go in your direction in the afternoon but this depends how much money you aim to earn and how much money is available. it all depends what you want to do.

11) 'help me' comes with danger signs. I have watched the original film 'the fly' and when somebody helps they tend to get spat upon and sucked up.

basically get out there, gain experience by watching and participating, learn from mistakes and be prepared to experience the pain of losing money on and off. because no matter how profitable/ successful you turn out to be, those losses shadow you everywhere you go and you need to be aware. its not all a bed of roses.

over and out. (for the time being anyway)

[wolfstreet]

Lucky, again thank you for your reply.

I really appreciate it.

I did some testing/playing about with the markets earlier on the UK horses.

I ended up with around a £3 profit from about 10 races scalping. Mostly 1 or 2 tickets per race using max of £10 stake.

Anyway the problem i really have is this....

- I dont understand why/when money is put in to the market, how it effects the market either way? Matched or unmatched. I see money coming in, and i dont know why, or what will happen...without understanding im unsure which way the market will go.

- I also dont understand fully how to read the charts and graphs...I take it these help traders to see why and when the markets move up and down?

If anyone could drop some knowledge on the above topics, it would help a bunch.

In addition to this, from what you are saying about the horse, does this mean you have prior knowledge about every horse and race etc, to determine what you think may happen? ( i know nothing about them )

Finally, what is the lowest liquidity we should be looking for, in a race to be worthwhile trading? something like 30k min?

--------AND should i just focus on UK? i know i spoke about this earlier but was unsure.

Cheers boss.

[custard]

I traded 36 races yesterday and made a profit.

You have to learn trading for yourself and there is no set of rules.


All my trades were made -



IN RUNNING !!!!!!!!

[lcredd]

I traded 20 markets. Pre race stakes were between £40 and £150. In-running stakes were between £5 and £20. Pre race average P/L between £2 and £12, In-running average P/L between £5 and £50.

In-running is a dangerous game even with £2 stakes. FWIW I ended up with a £16 loss, which was a good result in the end.

You have to trade in your own way, the way you feel comfortable. Some like to rush, in-out-in-out-in-out-finish... others can enter, take their sweet time, exit happy and satisfied. Trading is like making love to a beautiful woman...

[wolfstreet]

I traded 36 races yesterday and made a profit.

You have to learn trading for yourself and there is no set of rules.


All my trades were made -



IN RUNNING !!!!!!!!

Do you have any guidelines you stick to though?

In play is pretty dangerous right?

[wolfstreet]

I traded 20 markets. Pre race stakes were between £40 and £150. In-running stakes were between £5 and £20. Pre race average P/L between £2 and £12, In-running average P/L between £5 and £50.

In-running is a dangerous game even with £2 stakes. FWIW I ended up with a £16 loss, which was a good result in the end.

You have to trade in your own way, the way you feel comfortable. Some like to rush, in-out-in-out-in-out-finish... others can enter, take their sweet time, exit happy and satisfied. Trading is like making love to a beautiful woman...

Thank you sir appreciate your words.

Can anyone help though with trying to make me understand weight of money, why market moves with certain amounts etc?

Also, what are the best graphs/charts to look at whilst trading? If so, how to get them up on geeks?

Finally, is it essential to watch the races, if you are a pre-race trader?

I dont have sky right this second at my location - is it a problem?


Regards

[Temujin]

You have to learn trading for yourself and there is no set of rules.

This about sums it up. Although I guess some people have rules for themselves (I tend to call mine guidelines), very rare that there are any real strategies that will simply work if you pass on your wisdom to somebody else. In regards to scalping anyway.

You need to work out your own rules, where you have an edge, and do what makes you money.

For some, they like the heavy liquidity markets and can read price swings. Others, like markets with very little money in them so they can offer the odds and make their margin that way.

Very few rules pass on to others as the biggest part of this game is mental, and no 2 people are as mental as each other....

[Temujin]

Do you have any guidelines you stick to though?

In play is pretty dangerous right?

In play is more dangerous when you leave a pre race bet to go in play. When you trade in play you are reading the race. When you start in play, it is much less dangerous.

You can either do speed maps well, and trade that, or you can read the race. If you are reading the race, as long as you have your get in/out points, then there is no reason it is more dangerous than prerace. Problem being, you are unlikely to be first to the information.

[lcredd]

Thank you sir appreciate your words.

Can anyone help though with trying to make me understand weight of money, why market moves with certain amounts etc?

Also, what are the best graphs/charts to look at whilst trading? If so, how to get them up on geeks?

Finally, is it essential to watch the races, if you are a pre-race trader?

I dont have sky right this second at my location - is it a problem?


Regards

Trawl through the forum, you'll find detailed answers to all your questions in old threads. Here's a good one on in-running: http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showth...ght=in+running

[custard]

In play is more dangerous when you leave a pre race bet to go in play. When you trade in play you are reading the race. When you start in play, it is much less dangerous.

You can either do speed maps well, and trade that, or you can read the race. If you are reading the race, as long as you have your get in/out points, then there is no reason it is more dangerous than prerace. Problem being, you are unlikely to be first to the information.

I agree completely. The unfortunate thing is that so many people have said that "in running betting is dangerous" that this has been accepted as being true even when it isn't.

Allowing a pre-race bet to go in play isn't a cardinal sin either. If one genuinely believes that a specific horse is overpriced and will shorten in running, there is nothing wrong with trading it using both methods. Of course, if you have no bloody idea of form and have selected your traded horse by using a pin, you trade out before the off.

I am a very bad loser and sometimes allow losses to interfere with my judgement. I have reverted to a strategy I used about five years ago and abandoned following said losses. I have come to realise that my strategy was bound to have losses as well as wins and it seems now that it wins more than it loses. I haven't found the Holy Grail but it seems to be sound enough. Unfortunately, it only works with small stakes as in running liquidity is usually lower than pre-race liquidity and price changes may be dramatic making the matching of bets more difficult.

[Temujin]

Exactly. It all depends on why you backed or laid in the first place. If you backed because you believed the price to come down to scalp before the off, then in play is a stab in the dark. We have all been there, I am still going there after a decade.

But the only reason in play is seen as dangerous is because people end up there with no valid reason except they didn't want to cop a loss. In play is just as valid to trade as anything, in fact I would argue that it makes more sense. When you have definitive parameters as to why a price will move, such as in play, then you are throwing less darts.....


IMO

[lcredd]

In-play is more volatile, so if you know what you're doing then there fantastic risk-vs-reward opportunities. I haven't got a solid strategy and have learnt the hard way that it's easy to risk a lot to win a little.