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Thread: Am I Actually Profitable? 4 week challenge...

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    Lightbulb Am I Actually Profitable? 4 week challenge...

    Hi Folks

    I have recently been looking through the forum and reading through people's threads in the Diaries & Challenges section with interest. In particular people such as acj, bmj1491 etc and have enjoyed reading about their successes and progress continued progress.

    I started off in matched betting and 18 months ago started learning to trade using the Geeks Toy, have read about and been inspired by Caan/Chuck. Since then I have become determined to crack this and have devoted a lot of time to the markets, reading blogs etc and after a rollercoaster of a journey have recently been trading relatively well...

    ...however! I have this devil inside of me that sometimes lets things go in play (this doesn't have to be when I am staring at a loss). For the experienced among you, this is most probably the type of story you are bored of hearing about by now - I don't blame you. In my head I believe that I can trade profitably, but I have lost discipline and let things go in-play a few times recently. Due to this, I am genuinely not sure how profitable I actually am, and am ashamed to admit this to myself.

    So now is the time for this to stop and to prove to myself that I can profit on a weekly basis. I am off work for the next few weeks and will try to fit in trading as much as I can. I have roughly a £400 bank and will be trading Aussie horse racing (which I recently seem to have found an edge on) and UK/Irish horse racing. I will be posting my P&L each day, so that I can be honest to myself as well as anyone who is interested in taking a look! After working so hard/all the hours I have put in to this, it's time to do things properly. Thanks to anyone who ends up taking the time to read - cheers! Gta2003.

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    Mr Poolside Caan Berry's Avatar
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    Good luck gta2003! I'll keep an eye out with interest.

    Don't be too hard on yourself, and whatever you do don't go in-play (unless properly planned).

    Caan
    Edges are ten-a-penny, execution is everything

    Read My FULL-TIME Racing Traders Blog Here!!
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    Thanks Caan! Appreciate the support :-) I hope to be reporting a green later, but we shall see!

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    Have a lot on today and today being a Monday, it's probably best to have this as a trading day off! So will start and pick this up tomorrow.

    On a separate note, does anyone know where I can watch live feeds of all Aussie horse races? I have recently been using Sky Racing radio, however as they cover all racing including Greyhounds, this can be unreliable to predict when the race is going to start. Thanks!

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    I have tried to write a diary like this in the past, and what I found is that it makes me want to post a profit every day, and that can lead to some problems. So be carefull with that. Good luck!

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    Hi Ironmexx, def understand what you're saying and thanks for the message :-) I think I maybe shouldn't have the word 'challenge' in the title, as for me this is more an exercise to not go in play and see if I truely can trade profitably. Being off work the next few weeks is a good opportunity to prove this to myself and post p&l to help me keep discipline.

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    Hi All

    Traded 34 markets yesterday and am delighted to say that I managed a profit of £35.38! So that's just over £1 per race on average, so not exactly megabucks, however I am really happy with this and hope to manage to continue to stay in profit.

    The markets were fairly good to trade today and there were plenty of swings and opportunity on offer. I started off with very slow progress and found that most of the day I was taking two steps forward and one step back, mostly due to silly mistakes I was making this became quite frustrating. I traded well, but made quite a few mistakes that prevented me from potentially making a fair bit more profit:

    1) I am much better these days at picking my fights and being patient to wait until I see a genuine opportunity to present itself or until I am 75% sure the prices will go the way I think. However, yesterday there were a few occasions that I did not follow this rule and at least twice jumped into a position which was only really 50/50 in my head with quite a sizable stake, only for it to of course go the other way! These mistakes were uneccesary and I will learn from this for the next session.

    2) I have found that I often focus too much on the favorite - there were two or three occasions yesterday when I was waiting for a swing on the favorite in a maiden race, when out of the corner of my eye I could see a genuine trend developing and continuing 10-20 tick on another horse, I would keep hanging on for the favorite to move, but this wouldn't happen so definitely missed opportunities for profit there! Will need to ensure I make sure I get involved with these swings from now on.

    What saved yesterday I think was the 19:10 at Kempton. The favorite drifted massively from 3 minutes or so to the off from just above 2.0 to a way beyond 3.0 I think and I managed to trade this relatively well, making around £15. I remember thinking earlier in the day that I had not really made much profit considering the time I had put in, but reminded myself that all you need is one or two of these great trading opportunities to save the day - just needed to try not to get impatient in the meantime.

    Results from yesterday:

    Horse Racing: £35.38 Total P&L: £35.38

    Horse Racing Showing 1 - 20 of 34 markets
    Market Start time Settled date Profit/loss (£)
    Horse Racing / Kemp 4th Oct : 1m4f Mdn 04-Oct-16 20:10 04-Oct-16 20:19 -0.32
    Horse Racing / Kemp 4th Oct : 1m Hcap 04-Oct-16 19:40 04-Oct-16 19:45 -3.04
    Horse Racing / Kemp 4th Oct : 1m Mdn 04-Oct-16 19:10 04-Oct-16 19:16 15.36
    Horse Racing / Kemp 4th Oct : 1m Mdn 04-Oct-16 18:40 04-Oct-16 18:46 3.56
    Horse Racing / Brig 4th Oct : 1m4f Hcap 04-Oct-16 17:45 04-Oct-16 17:50 0.22
    Horse Racing / Kemp 4th Oct : 7f Nursery 04-Oct-16 17:40 04-Oct-16 17:45 -2.19
    Horse Racing / Tipp 4th Oct : 2m4f INHF 04-Oct-16 17:25 04-Oct-16 17:31 3.51
    Horse Racing / Leic 4th Oct : 7f Mdn 04-Oct-16 17:20 04-Oct-16 17:23 3.84
    Horse Racing / Brig 4th Oct : 6f Hcap 04-Oct-16 17:10 04-Oct-16 17:13 -1.73
    Horse Racing / Catt 4th Oct : 5f Hcap 04-Oct-16 17:00 04-Oct-16 17:08 4.22
    Horse Racing / Tipp 4th Oct : 2m1f Hcap Chs 04-Oct-16 16:55 04-Oct-16 17:05 3.40
    Horse Racing / Leic 4th Oct : 1m4f Hcap 04-Oct-16 16:50 04-Oct-16 16:56 -2.58
    Horse Racing / Brig 4th Oct : 1m2f Hcap 04-Oct-16 16:40 04-Oct-16 16:44 -4.79
    Horse Racing / Catt 4th Oct : 1m6f Hcap 04-Oct-16 16:30 04-Oct-16 16:37 3.15
    Horse Racing / Tipp 4th Oct : 2m7f Beg Chs 04-Oct-16 16:25 04-Oct-16 16:36 4.28
    Horse Racing / Leic 4th Oct : 6f Hcap 04-Oct-16 16:20 04-Oct-16 16:30 0.67
    Horse Racing / Brig 4th Oct : 1m Hcap 04-Oct-16 16:10 04-Oct-16 16:14 1.87
    Horse Racing / Catt 4th Oct : 1m6f Hcap 04-Oct-16 16:00 04-Oct-16 16:07 0.51
    Horse Racing / Tipp 4th Oct : 2m4f Nov Chs 04-Oct-16 15:55 04-Oct-16 16:05 -2.09
    Horse Racing / Leic 4th Oct : 1m4f Hcap 04-Oct-16 15:50 04-Oct-16 15:59 -3.21
    Horse Racing / Brig 4th Oct : 1m Hcap 04-Oct-16 15:40 04-Oct-16 15:43 0.93
    Horse Racing / Catt 4th Oct : 1m4f Hcap 04-Oct-16 15:30 04-Oct-16 15:37 3.47
    Horse Racing / Tipp 4th Oct : 3m Hcap Hrd 04-Oct-16 15:25 04-Oct-16 15:35 -0.11
    Horse Racing / Leic 4th Oct : 1m2f Sell Stks 04-Oct-16 15:20 04-Oct-16 15:34 -4.47
    Horse Racing / Brig 4th Oct : 1m Mdn 04-Oct-16 15:10 04-Oct-16 15:18 3.44
    Horse Racing / Tipp 4th Oct : 2m Mdn Hrd 04-Oct-16 14:55 04-Oct-16 15:05 3.80
    Horse Racing / Catt 4th Oct : 7f Nursery 04-Oct-16 15:00 04-Oct-16 15:04 0.11
    Horse Racing / Leic 4th Oct : 7f Mdn 04-Oct-16 14:50 04-Oct-16 14:55 0.70
    Horse Racing / Brig 4th Oct : 7f Nursery 04-Oct-16 14:40 04-Oct-16 14:46 0.76
    Horse Racing / Tipp 4th Oct : 2m Mdn Hrd 04-Oct-16 14:25 04-Oct-16 14:33 0.76
    Horse Racing / Catt 4th Oct : 6f Nursery 04-Oct-16 14:30 04-Oct-16 14:33 -1.74
    Horse Racing / Leic 4th Oct : 7f Mdn 04-Oct-16 14:20 04-Oct-16 14:23 4.73
    Horse Racing / Brig 4th Oct : 7f Mdn 04-Oct-16 14:10 04-Oct-16 14:19 2.38
    Horse Racing / Catt 4th Oct : 5f Mdn 04-Oct-16 14:00 04-Oct-16 14:04 -4.02

    Am going to struggle against the temptation not to, but no trading today as have to spend the day preparing for an important appt in the morning. Back on tomorrow afternoon though.
    Best of luck to all trading today :-)

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    I was free yesterday evening and saw that Kempton was on, so i couldn't resist!



    2016-10-04 23:00

    (yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm) to


    2016-10-06 07:27

    (yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm) Get P & L


    Horse Racing: £3.43 Total P&L: £3.43

    Horse Racing Showing 1 - 7 of 7 markets
    Market Start time Settled date Profit/loss (£)
    Horse Racing / Kemp 5th Oct : 7f Hcap 05-Oct-16 20:50 05-Oct-16 21:00 -12.38
    Horse Racing / Kemp 5th Oct : 6f Hcap 05-Oct-16 20:20 05-Oct-16 20:25 1.92
    Horse Racing / Kemp 5th Oct : 6f Cond Stks 05-Oct-16 19:50 05-Oct-16 19:59 9.69
    Horse Racing / Kemp 5th Oct : 1m3f Hcap 05-Oct-16 19:20 05-Oct-16 19:26 5.92
    Horse Racing / Kemp 5th Oct : 7f Hcap 05-Oct-16 18:50 05-Oct-16 18:56 -9.43
    Horse Racing / Kemp 5th Oct : 7f Mdn Stks 05-Oct-16 18:20 05-Oct-16 18:34 7.80
    Horse Racing / Kemp 5th Oct : 7f Mdn Stks 05-Oct-16 17:50 05-Oct-16 17:54 -0.09

    So out of the 7 markets, I only managed £3.43 - I am happy that this was profit, but before the last race I was almost £16 up and then lost £12 by overstaking in a handicap (handicaps are the races that I struggle with a bit). I got myself £7 in the red by making a bad decision and then made it worse by overstaking on a different horse near the off, only for it to go the wrong way - this was completely uneccesary and I knew at the time I shouldn't be doing it. This is the kind of lack of discipline that I need to overcome, as these mistakes where i know that I shouldn't be doing them is holding me back from being in much more profit.
    I hope to be trading a lot this afternoon and will be looking to learn from the last couple of days and not repeat these mistakes (easier said than done, but it can't be that hard to control myself can it?!!).
    Best of luck to all.

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    Forum Guru lcredd's Avatar
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    Any session where you finish in profit is a good session, especially when you're only just starting out. Whether you win or lose there will always be lessons to learn, but it tends to be a slow process so don't be surprised if you make the same mistake 50 times, I know I did and still do.

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    Hey Icredd

    Your are right, I need to have a long term view and just be happy that I made a profit. Thanks, it's good to know I'm not the only one making repeated mistakes!

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    Finished on a loss yesterday unfortunately:


    2016-10-05 23:59

    (yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm) to


    2016-10-06 23:59

    (yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm) Get P & L


    Horse Racing: -£4.27 Total P&L: -£4.27

    Horse Racing Showing 1 - 20 of 35 markets
    Market Start time Settled date Profit/loss (£)

    Horse Racing / ChelmC 6th Oct : 6f Mdn Stks 06-Oct-16 18:25 06-Oct-16 18:28 -10.74
    Horse Racing / ChelmC 6th Oct : 7f Claim Stks 06-Oct-16 17:55 06-Oct-16 17:57 3.78
    Horse Racing / Tram 6th Oct : 2m INHF 06-Oct-16 17:35 06-Oct-16 17:43 -3.06
    Horse Racing / Ayr 6th Oct : 7f Hcap 06-Oct-16 17:30 06-Oct-16 17:35 1.51
    Horse Racing / Tram 6th Oct : 2m6f Hcap Chs 06-Oct-16 17:05 06-Oct-16 17:17 1.30
    Horse Racing / Ayr 6th Oct : 7f Hcap 06-Oct-16 17:00 06-Oct-16 17:05 -9.05
    Horse Racing / Here 6th Oct : 2m Hcap Chs 06-Oct-16 16:50 06-Oct-16 16:56 2.06
    Horse Racing / Extr 6th Oct : 2m1f Nov Hrd 06-Oct-16 16:40 06-Oct-16 16:45 -3.54
    Horse Racing / Tram 6th Oct : 2m6f Beg Chs 06-Oct-16 16:30 06-Oct-16 16:37 2.73
    Horse Racing / Ayr 6th Oct : 7f Hcap 06-Oct-16 16:25 06-Oct-16 16:29 1.60
    Horse Racing / Here 6th Oct : 3m1f Hcap Chs 06-Oct-16 16:15 06-Oct-16 16:23 3.86
    Horse Racing / Extr 6th Oct : 3m Beg Chs 06-Oct-16 16:05 06-Oct-16 16:13 5.82
    Horse Racing / Tram 6th Oct : 2m Nov Chs 06-Oct-16 15:55 06-Oct-16 16:03 -7.84
    Horse Racing / Ayr 6th Oct : 6f Hcap 06-Oct-16 15:50 06-Oct-16 15:53 1.96
    Horse Racing / Here 6th Oct : 2m Hcap Hrd 06-Oct-16 15:40 06-Oct-16 15:46 1.37
    Horse Racing / Extr 6th Oct : 3m Hcap Chs 06-Oct-16 15:30 06-Oct-16 15:37 2.06
    Horse Racing / Tram 6th Oct : 2m5f Hcap Hrd 06-Oct-16 15:20 06-Oct-16 15:27 0.52
    Horse Racing / Ayr 6th Oct : 5f Hcap 06-Oct-16 15:15 06-Oct-16 15:17 0.59
    Horse Racing / Here 6th Oct : 2m5f Beg Chs 06-Oct-16 15:05 06-Oct-16 15:12 3.48
    Horse Racing / Extr 6th Oct : 2m2f Hcap Hrd 06-Oct-16 14:55 06-Oct-16 15:01 -0.07
    Horse Racing / Tram 6th Oct : 2m Hcap Hrd 06-Oct-16 14:45 06-Oct-16 14:51 2.05
    Horse Racing / Ayr 6th Oct : 6f Hcap 06-Oct-16 14:40 06-Oct-16 14:44 -5.88
    Horse Racing / Here 6th Oct : 2m6f Mdn Hrd 06-Oct-16 14:30 06-Oct-16 14:38 11.86
    Horse Racing / Extr 6th Oct : 2m5f Nov Hcap Hrd 06-Oct-16 14:20 06-Oct-16 14:28 4.24
    Horse Racing / Tram 6th Oct : 2m Mdn Hrd 06-Oct-16 14:15 06-Oct-16 14:21 -5.01
    Horse Racing / Ayr 6th Oct : 6f Nursery 06-Oct-16 14:10 06-Oct-16 14:13 -6.42
    Horse Racing / Here 6th Oct : 2m Nov Hrd 06-Oct-16 14:00 06-Oct-16 14:08 -11.03
    Horse Racing / Ayr 6th Oct : 6f Mdn Stks 06-Oct-16 13:40 06-Oct-16 13:43 5.29

    Wasn't feeling great yesterday and don;t think I focused properly. One thing to takeaway is that I need to lower stakes on handicaps as these are not my forte - this should reduce quite a few losses. Looking forward to later today.
    GL all.

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    BACK TO SQUARE ONE!

    Yep, well yesterday I had a couple of beers at lunchtime and then decided that I would trade. Based on previous experiences, I have made it my number one rule not to trade after having had a drink or two - mostly because of these reasons:

    1) The devil inside of me has a natural urge to break the rules and as such, discipline is not the at the top of the menu
    2) I find it hard to focus on what the prices of other horses are doing
    3) I often end up going in-play

    Here are yesterday's results - as soon as I lost the £64, luckily I stopped myself from doing further damage and knocked it on the head,.


    Betting Profit & Loss


    2016-10-06 23:00

    (yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm) to


    2016-10-08 12:23

    (yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm) Get P & L


    Horse Racing: -£58.64 Total P&L: -£58.64

    Horse Racing Showing 1 - 9 of 9 markets
    Market Start time Settled date Profit/loss (£)
    Horse Racing / Newt 7th Oct : 2m5f Chs 07-Oct-16 15:35 07-Oct-16 15:44 -64.54
    Horse Racing / York 7th Oct : 1m6f Hcap 07-Oct-16 15:25 07-Oct-16 15:38 47.65
    Horse Racing / York 7th Oct : 5f Mdn Stks 07-Oct-16 14:50 07-Oct-16 14:58 3.94
    Horse Racing / Newt 7th Oct : 2m Nov Chs 07-Oct-16 14:30 07-Oct-16 14:39 -35.01
    Horse Racing / York 7th Oct : 1m Hcap 07-Oct-16 14:20 07-Oct-16 14:25 -13.59
    Horse Racing / Newm 7th Oct : 7f Grp3 07-Oct-16 14:05 07-Oct-16 14:11 2.29
    Horse Racing / Newt 7th Oct : 2m2f Nov Hrd 07-Oct-16 13:55 07-Oct-16 14:02 -3.72
    Horse Racing / York 7th Oct : 6f Nursery 07-Oct-16 13:45 07-Oct-16 13:52 4.45
    Horse Racing / Newm 7th Oct : 5f Grp3 07-Oct-16 13:35 07-Oct-16 13:39 -0.11

    So after this loss, I am pretty much back to square one. I have £302 in my Betfair account and £103 in my Betdaq account in case Betfair freezes. I will have to learn from this, things were going OK until this happened and I know that going in-play is a sure-fire way to quickly burn your bank.
    I will only have time to trade for an hour or so today and will hopefully add to my bank - and going forwards, no trading after drinking! I may now have to change the name of this thread from "Am I actually profitable" to "Am i actually a tw*t?!".

    Happy trading!

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    Beating yourself up for mistakes/indiscipline is not the way to go. I know I've done that and you've done it too and it didn't make things any better.
    Errors are part of trading and the only thing to do is to acknowledge them, find out what was the cause, find the solution, and move on.
    It's not a large sum of money anyway so the damage is mostly to your mental state It's a £60 lesson that you've paid for.

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    Hey Bibu. Thanks, you are definitely right. I think I was mostly annoyed that I traded after drinking, which never ends well! Yes, I was just luckily that I only blew my profits rather than my whole bank!

    Only traded a couple of hours yesterday as was fiancee's birthday do. I have attached screenshot of P&L (£18.47), not sure if the picture will be viewable OK.

    Was up at 4am this morning trading the Aussie nags and has gone well considering the amount drunk last night. If I could have visibility of all Aussie races on screen, it would make my pre-race trading a lot less risky (I catch late swings not long before the off), but can't seem to find anywhere that plays them all - I would happily pay for the service.

    Hoping to trade a lot this afternoon - gl everyone.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	profit 08.10.jpg 
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    Ah P&L pic comes out too small - is there a way around this?

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    Upload to the likes of tinypic.com and then use the image tag in your post:

    Code:
    [IMG]image_link[/IMG]

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    Thanks DarkHorse!

    08/10 (Sunday) - this was a good day with £77.45 profit and a lot of that coming from Aussie markets. However, also good results on UK/Irish racing. Although on the 3rd to last market a traded well with £25 profit, I then became jubilant and lost focus which resulted in the next two races losing around £25 between them. School boy error in not being able to manage the highs of getting good profit from one market and should have moved onto the next with a clear head and treating it as a new race! Another lesson I will try my best to learn from! I hope the below link works...

    http://oi64.tinypic.com/vg4ytz.jpg

    And as for yesterday, a massive £2.35 profit! Poor results on the Aussie markets didn't help (had to close out in-play a couple of times for bad losses - really need to try and sort out some live feeds so will work on searching these out).

    Could've traded better on the UK/Irish, but could have been worse and hey, it was Monday and I ended up in profit :-). Becoming more confident with the markets and certain situations I used to struggle with now and am feeling happy about the progress. I won't be trading much today, but all the best to those who do. Yesterday's screenshot link should show below:

    http://oi65.tinypic.com/j6kgp2.jpg

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    Good luick mate; sounds like youre in a similar position to me.

    I found reading chucks diary on his website helped - the early days when he burned his bank in particular.

    On this journey you will hit obstacles, get frustrated, feel euphoric. You'll look on with envy as others seem to breeze through into easy profits. But realize this, everyone who has ever cracked this game, every single one...started out knowing nothing. Thats the beauty of this game. Perseverance, perceptiveness, and patience. Good luck.

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    Yeah, looking at Caan's early losses helps me aswell, when things aren't going well

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    Hi Kodiac - yes it was Chuck's blog that got me into this funnily enough! The great thing about it is the honesty, trials and tribulations and then of course the success story from learning from mistakes, sheer determination and self-belief - great stuff! You seem to have made great progress, I am sure it will continue too. I am also working in a big corporate company and it is not for me - I am starting a new job in a smaller company for less money in a few weeks in the pursuit of happier times, however I think deep down I would love to also get much better at this!

    Hi - Ironmexx - haha yes 100% good to know that full-timers went through the same frustrations and came out the other side! Which brings me to my update below.....

    Unfortunately, I have lost discipline again and gone in-play a couple of times over the past few days (once under the influence of alcohol - again) - leaving me with a bank of just over £100. I am obviously very disappointed at this, as the idea of this diary was to basically challenge myself not to go in-play and see how profitable I actually am.

    However, I am also quite glad it has happened in a way, as I can now focus on the same challenge, but with a smaller bank of £100 - this will take a lot of the emotion out of playing with bigger stakes. I have done this before recently and quite successfully, as I seem to be able to think more clearly and with less emotion with smaller stakes. I am looking for consistency and not 'the rollercoaster' and growing my bank from £100 and focusing on discipline and execution is a much healthier way to do thing than to just re-deposit more money in my account!

    I am looking forward to this new challenge - I believe that I have the potential to do well at this, however still issues to overcome! If anyone is interested, I will continue to post P&L every couple of days with a bit of commentary (however much smaller stakes, for the time being) - very determined to make this work :-D

    All the best

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