Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The In Runners

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The In Runners

    Can you or does anyone make money In play without live pics,be it just looking at prices or form reading or watching ATR and so on just curious????

  • #2
    i can, on footie thouhg
    справка по The Geeks Toy на русском »» здеся ««

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BruceLee1973 View Post
      Can you or does anyone make money In play without live pics,be it just looking at prices or form reading or watching ATR and so on just curious????
      Now that the UK is nearly all digital television rather than analogue, pictures are of almost no use for in-running trading. Bookmakers feeds show quicker pictures and exchange shops may still have an edge.

      A few of us trade horses in running and I do not think we are in any way disadvantaged by not seeing pictures. The only thing that matters are the numbers as they relate to back and lay prices of a specific horse.

      I love racing and have watched it since I was a little boy. I am still unable to read a race properly despite the fact that I have since hundreds of thousands of them in my lifetime. Well known experts, such as John Francome, also admit this. So, even if I could see pictures, I probably couldn't guarantee winning.

      The method I use is to use my knowledge of form to pick horses which will run well. I don't care about them winning, just as long as their lay price falls below their back price is OK by me.

      I try to use automated methods but many trade successfully by manual means and green up with The Toy as soon as they feel they have had enough profit from a horse. The secret is not to be greedy because then it is gambling in the hope of trying to pick winners rather than settling for horses that shorten.

      Comment


      • #4
        I also can, there is 1 strategy that works for me, and it is probably "bottable". You can use the forms to predict certain moves when the races start. Then you just add the races and horses you want to work with, and a bot could probably do the rest. I have manually tested the strategy for a month. It would be optimal with a bot. I usually do the research the day before, I make a list with the horses and races I will work with, then on the next day I just react to the market behavior and the way the horse runs, just looking at the price and hearing it on the radio. The bot just needs to track the price, and apply a "run profits / cut losses" behavior.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes it is possible to make money without pictures, when i think of inrunning traders who use "live pictures" i think of my Woo(or what ever his name was), some of you may have seen his blog from yester Year making £1000's a day in the exchange shop in London, he would back or indeed lay on the race in the latter parts of the race, but would at times call it wrong, very wrong so in reality even "live" pictures still presents a risk, be it the race "readers" fault or indeed a moment of madness(greed) when he lumps on thinking he has called it a sure thing ie: 1.01 Losers

          When i do my inrunning yes i have ATR on or BBC/CH4 but i use timeform radio as the audio source, why timeform? because usually the guys on there are clued up on the matters at hand with relation to betfair after all thats who pays them, they will speak of various horses that present an inrunning angle, when i hear this and if its a selection i have not identified myself, i will then proceed to look up its past form, running etc to see why they have come to that conclusion and learn from it. The reason i have ATR and have bbc/ch4 on its i actually enjoy the racing

          My selections are from various form/hints/pointers from various sites even betfair affords excellent past history on how it ran in past races, Ie starting price and lowest Inrunning price achieved, if its a significant drop then there had to be a reason for, i have seen some selections with starting prices at say 42, drop to 2.00 and come last, !! but for a moment during a race it obviously ran well, likewise in previous races its offprice is higher than that of its lowest, its finding these and using them to your advantage again the key to this angle is not to be too greedy, by taking big drops in ticks, or indeed massive stakes, unless your supremely confident

          Race length has bearing too, a 5f race is over almost as soon as it starts as usually the winner has to be off sharpish, so the hold up type of horse is less likely to prevail, longer races can suit the hold up type.
          I prefer the front/prominent types that can either front run or stay intouch for much of the race sometimes leading then dipping back on 10f+ races as the odds will usually move accordingly.

          i will also take the option of taking the loss in-running ie decide if i have screwed up and take it on the chin, ie instead of lossing £10, 15 or 25 i'll hedge for less, been caught many a time redded up only to see a massive fall in odds infact going on to win...

          However you play Its still a risk


          I have drawn a list up for tommorow evening so may if i get time post some on here, with perhaps reasonings for picking them depending on going as its rain tommorow so things will change.

          Comment


          • #6
            I do the same sorts of things as Ron does. I get all the information I can and don't deliberately block anything out. I'll have ATR on as well because I like horse racing. We can pick up bits of information but we cannot have fast pictures and we are nearly always looking at a race which has a few seconds delay and the market has already adjusted before we see the cause of that adjustment.

            If you automate, you have the advantage of being disciplined as your lay bet is pre-set. If you work manually, you are more flexible and not committed to a price, you just "do your best".

            I am opposed to stop losses because I have done a great deal of in-running trading and they seem to fail more often than they work. I don't think that Ron uses a stop-loss tool but takes a loss when he decides it time to take one. Perhaps, he will clarify this for us ?

            Comment


            • #7
              I
              Originally posted by custard View Post
              I do the same sorts of things as Ron does. I get all the information I can and don't deliberately block anything out. I'll have ATR on as well because I like horse racing. We can pick up bits of information but we cannot have fast pictures and we are nearly always looking at a race which has a few seconds delay and the market has already adjusted before we see the cause of that adjustment.

              If you automate, you have the advantage of being disciplined as your lay bet is pre-set. If you work manually, you are more flexible and not committed to a price, you just "do your best".

              I am opposed to stop losses because I have done a great deal of in-running trading and they seem to fail more often than they work. I don't think that Ron uses a stop-loss tool but takes a loss when he decides it time to take one. Perhaps, he will clarify this for us ?
              I use the toy, which has no stoploss so i do it manually, either by placing it manually or just by hitting the hedge button till matched, typing via the phone so maybe a mistake here or there.

              Comment


              • #8
                On the point of live pictures, the information is in the market and therefore in The Toy way before 99% of people can see, compute and execute their moves. No different from tickertape trading in the 1890's in Chicago.

                Having the telly on just negatively impacts my interpretation of the patterns either via distraction or influence of the commentators. If I enjoyed horse racing then I'd probably be a lot worse at my style of trading, and would look at reading form like nige and ron and trying to find an edge that way (respect as all of that stuff confuses me!)

                The thing about In Running trading is that The Toy suits it perfectly. The amount of customisation really lends itself to several styles, and editing the xml files can help too. I have 3 current IR profiles and have had as many as 6 depending on stake, odds and length of race.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have tried using pictures, and I had some success laying in jumps races, but still got caught out sometimes and my strategies have changed since then as I want to be able to trade all year.

                  I now focus on the shorter flat races and don't have either commentary or pictures. I mostly listen to rock music instead and reply only on price movements to trigger my bets.

                  I tend to look at the top 7 runners (because 7 ladders fits easily on one screen) but sometimes have a go with 16 ladders across two screens.

                  As has already been said, the information you need is in the prices before you will see it in the pictures.
                  If you want more luck... Take more chances!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I do in-running,just to just concentrate on longer races as its more steady than short races.Once i got comfortable on longer races i have moved onto to shorter races and as long as you use good bank management and dont get greedy i can do okay.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Timeform radio will have some guy on air tommorow neil Munrow who is an inrunning guru by all acccounts, someone asked for advice via email and they stated that this guy is on and to direct questions to him, could be interesting.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BruceLee1973 View Post
                        Can you or does anyone make money In play without live pics,be it just looking at prices or form reading or watching ATR and so on just curious????
                        Live pics are always a few seconds behind depending on the system you use to receive live pics. The time lag is sufficient to make live trading risky. I use flash player with a quick broadband connection and find that often it is reasonably reliable (only 2 to 5 seconds behind) but you will get caught out!
                        You can trade by listening to a commentary and also by watching the odds move live on the AGT programme, but again there is a time lag which again varies. Unless you pay big bucks for a live feed you will always face risk - most times you will be OK but you will get rolled over at some point.
                        Not for the faint hearted!
                        platty

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm more or less in the camp of Ron and Custard with this. I do study form and look for pointers. there are some horses which always travel very strongly and shorten but rarely win. I try to find those beasts if i can. Pace is the most important aspect of any horse race. Judging how fast they are going is difficult in the UK because we don't have sectional times and also the positioning of our cameras on tracks mean that oftentimes you're viewing the race at an almost head on angle. Usually a quick look at the form and trip notes will tell you what you need to know. if 4 or 5 horses in a 7 runner race are habitual leaders and one of those is a Short Priced fav then I'd be looking to lay it, if they all take each other on at a furious gallop then it will usually drift. likewise if there is a single fornt runner and its a reasonable price I'd be looking to back it.

                          I feel overall that some form study and a good understanding of racing will give you an edge if you're punting IR. Of course occasionally you can spot things during the race and react but simply relying on what you see will ultimately result in losses I think.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I got onto a couple of nice ones even with the delay to Aus the other day on the UK races. When they are travelling well, it is easy to spot even with the delay. I got on just as they bounced right down to where they should have been..
                            By live pics I assume you aren't simply talking about vision, which has been mentioned over and over is a delayed feed, especially digital feeds.
                            Other than that, I have traded in play simply by radio when my Austar was still waiting to be installed. Certainly not as profitable as with pictures, but kept me entertained, and from what I can recall in front a little.

                            Really depends on your strategy. As suggested, form guys don't really need live pics, or pics at all, but pics certainly help in all situations from where I sit. If you are a pure numbers man such as myself, then not too much point going in without pics. Play your strengths. Mine is reading the race (still only benching 20 with it, but stronger than form reading etc... ) and associating that with odds....
                            I could care less how much it got beaten by last start and what its odds started out. The best travelling horse is still that whether it is 150/1 or 2/1...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Temujin View Post
                              If you are a pure numbers man such as myself, then not too much point going in without pics.
                              Fair enough Tem, there are lots of purely numerical patterns repeating themselves tho, a bit like a computer game. e.g. playing the spread in the 100 > 1000 range with £2 stakes.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X