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Aussie Racing turn over charge

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  • Aussie Racing turn over charge

    I hope to find out if this means we can now trade NSW again will post if I find out.

  • #2
    We can indeed go back to trading NSW.

    Personally am going to be avoiding scalping.


    • #3
      That's it TaveMan. You can trade, but scalping wouldn't be advisable!

      If I've done my maths right (which is problematic) and you are purely a short-priced backer in or out of play you seriously need to review what you're doing.

      If you enjoy 1.01 backing then I make it that you'll lose (if you satisfy the other criteria).
      Although it does potentially bring back inplay (and competent pre event) traders with wider margins.

      All needs to be measured with respect to Premium charges too. From my dealing with a rep the T/O charge WILL NOT be considered a part of 'other charges' but I'm not 100% sure he really knew.

      Remember to check your tracks out:

      I think it's safe to assume from July 30 that this applies to NSW/QLD races and harness and Vic races. WA will follow later in the year.

      Funnily enough the 6.5% commission hasn't moved Then again that won't bother some PC'ers who need as bigger margin as possible.


      • #4
        I got a second call from Betfair.......

        These guys are doing me in.

        Although only a very modest player the change to 6.5% commission and NSW ban already cost me about 40% of my weekly profit.

        This will really cruel me (again).

        I'm presuming they are counting only the wager part of the back bet not the matched amount?

        Will certainly knock out the 1.01 backers and hammer volume scalpers.

        Looks like the targets were the long term winners again.

        By the sounds of this those who generate large volumes of turnover to avoid PC (thats you Temujin!) will be totally screwed.



        • #5
          I hear you Filthy. Filthy myself.

          And yes they are just counting the wager/back bet.
          I guess 1.01 just became 1.02!


          • #6
            Not sure if everybody got a phone call, but being a member of BF Black, I certainly did, and was informed of the charge. The caller was a little coy, and guilty even, and generally sounded concerned at the potential loss of a customer. Couple of jokes about me having to actually study some form for SA racing, and it was pretty much confirmed that this is the end, as there will be no further court action to try and change anything.

            This will change my operations plenty, but in the short term I expect it will do great things for me, if nothing more than making me more disciplined. A big kick in the guts, but have long moved on from pure scalping, although times appear to be changing to the point where other ventures (outside gambling) are much bigger on my radar.

            For my part, BF Australia have pretty much conceded defeat, so how long this lasts is anybodies guess, but for those that didn't believe the whole "adapt and evolve" part of the trading equation, need to start thinking seriously about it.
            Would be very easy to think negatively about this, but to be honest, stale thinking is stale living. If you can't move on with the changes, then you don't deserve to be making a living off this. Nothing lasts forever, except for me.

            So good luck to everybody else. But I plan on being here for the long term. BJ>BF.
            And for those not in the know. I am BJ.......


            • #7
              Not sure the guy who called me was as sympathetic. I honestly don't think he knew the intricacies. There was a little silence. Then he wanted to tell me how much I'd have owed based on last year. I said that's fine, but that's Australia wide and it wasn't implemented then! Maybe I should keep my balance on the low side...


              • #8
                The consequences of Betfair's lame and inept response to the original court decision are now evident. A ban on NSW racing would have seen a dramatic reduction in turnover in that state and other jurisdictions would have seen the effect and retained the Gross Profit model. Instead the turnover model has now grown legs. A shambolic situation!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                • #9
                  I've been trying to think of a way to avoid it with just $2000 of matched bets allowed its probably impossible for a trader to avoid this even if you are limiting yourself to a single trade per race. I was thinking does this mean even a regular punter if they did $2000 of just bets they would get charged as well? I'm sure there are a lot of punters out there who would do more then that in a week.

                  Funny I had a good chat with the BF guy that rang me I don't really think he understood I was trading as he recommended I just lay the horses .

                  I will be sticking with TAS WA and SA HR where I can and eventually migrate to new markets on or off betfair who knows. US HR is good time for me I wish the UK HR was a better time thats where its at lol. Its cool though the London Forex market opens when I get home from work... perfect.

                  I'm feeling a little naughty just did a scalp on Caulfield


                  • #10
                    Hey why not for fun Taveman, it all changes on Monday!

                    As for the regular punter, I suppose some will go over 50 races, others won't.

                    And if you are both a trader & punter, and you want a big bet on something in a T/O jurisdiction you'll be paying extra for the privilege. Might be better backing it elsewhere if you'll cop the fee.

                    He suggested the same thing to me.."can't you just lay horses now?"!


                    • #11
                      a bit bizarre really

                      I'll have to restrict myself to the 50 markets I think.

                      Bizarrely this will probably cost BFair a fair amount of PC and commission. As a punter who mixes up scientific winning type strategies and just enjoys backing a few from time to time (which is a nett loss) I can't see myself having the fun bets and then losing the 1.3% on my trading turnover. Back to the corporates with that.

                      It will be interesting to see if the low yield bots (e.g. the $3 price leader) stay around. I'd doubt they would make anything when paying 1.3% on turnover. I guess they'll stay with the 50 markets too.

                      Interestingly all the traders will probably now focus on the bigger pools and the small meetings will suffer from lack of liquidity.


                      • #12
                        Sa will be the new racing capital for turnover. Simple as that. As for me i moved into another field of backing teams on the line betting. Up 4 grand so far over the weekend to compliment my other activities. Then managed a couple of nice arbs to dump a quick 8 grand or so out of bf to keep pc off my back and not on the turnover radar as of yet. Will look at the racing soon enough but plenty of arbs so far on the olympics to keep the beer fridge stocked.


                        • #13
                          Ok here is for the Backers. What about the layers? Will they be spared? If I am a pure layer without back bets will this charge apply for me ?


                          • #14
                            I believe the charge is based on back turnover so laying should be no issue except for less backers in the market and looking to get higher odds to cover the charge. In play betting is now dead so hope you werent laying the shorties. Might be waiting a while for somebody to take the odds.


                            • #15
                              great. this charge may indeed draw my attention to the aussie markets