Stakes vs. Profits

[Paolo]

No he backs a horse, and lays it with the same amount. He then has a zero liability across all runners except for the horse he traded, which is running for a profit for him. This is a free bet, because if the horse gets up, he wins money, if it doesn't, he doesn't lose anything.

It is a profitable trade that hasn't been hedged, therefore, simply a free bet.

It didn't start out as a free bet, but he that is what he turned it into. Not to be confused with free bets supplied by betting companies to entice customers and turnover.

Do you mean hedge and profit for one horse? That is I bet 4$ on 6.0 and lay 4$ on 5.0 and have profit 4$. Am I right?
I made this for horses but I like more to have profit for all horses. I make kinda all green. Is this free bet? To predict one horse is impossible, better make profit for all. it's my opinion.

[Temujin]

I don't understand. Where do you have 0 Liability? He uses free bet which Betfair gave him?

No he backs a horse, and lays it with the same amount. He then has a zero liability across all runners except for the horse he traded, which is running for a profit for him. This is a free bet, because if the horse gets up, he wins money, if it doesn't, he doesn't lose anything.

It is a profitable trade that hasn't been hedged, therefore, simply a free bet.

It didn't start out as a free bet, but he that is what he turned it into. Not to be confused with free bets supplied by betting companies to entice customers and turnover.

[Paolo]

It is a free bet at the end because you have 0 liability on the others, and profit on the traded horse. He simply means he doesn't hedge those particular profits, prefers to have the horse running around for him for the chance of a big win.

I don't understand. Where do you have 0 Liability? He uses free bet which Betfair gave him?

[ReToCs]

yes thats what I mean, i hedge the partly so i leave some room for a bigger profit. Just do it when the horse is overpriced in my opinion...

[Temujin]

It is a free bet at the end because you have 0 liability on the others, and profit on the traded horse. He simply means he doesn't hedge those particular profits, prefers to have the horse running around for him for the chance of a big win.

[Paolo]

I think it's really easy to make at least 50% of your stake pre-race when using small stakes like 2 or 5. Just my advice would be to trade the highest priced horses... I often create free bets of 200+ on the outsiders using just 2e stakes... And if I can do it, you can too! It's worth to let those go inplay when it's just a small field and the outsiders has a high change of making a good run for a while.

just my 2 cents...

How free bet? BF don't give me free bet. I had to have 30$ bonus, but they don't pay me it.

[ReToCs]

I think it's really easy to make at least 50% of your stake pre-race when using small stakes like 2 or 5. Just my advice would be to trade the highest priced horses... I often create free bets of 200+ on the outsiders using just 2e stakes... And if I can do it, you can too! It's worth to let those go inplay when it's just a small field and the outsiders has a high change of making a good run for a while.

just my 2 cents...

[Paolo]

Is that 10% a day? For me, a 10% increase in bank in a day would be a good day (they don't happen that often, though!)

I agree that you shouldn't put too much emphasis on what you want to achieve on a daily basis, especially if you're using min stakes. As I've said before, focus on what you're doing and get good at that and the results will follow. That said, you should record what you do.

As nigelbleddfa says, try not to lose, but be prepared to take losses. Trading to me feels a bit like walking a tightrope sometimes. There's a fine line between getting it right and wrong, you've just got to try and get on that rope and stay on!

I make everyday 4-5$ at the average. It's avarage for me. Sometimes 20$, sometimes 0$. I'm not good trader.

[Caan Berry]

Helllo all, first time ive posted on here and the first time ive managed to find some real traders!! until now i didnt know how i've been doing i trade the horses and football in-play... the football i find have to be alot more selective but profit can be alot higher.... it seems alot of you are happy with a small turnover however its the learning thats important since feb ive made just over 200% profit, just come on here to share experience and info with others in the hope for some in return, mainly with trends and strategies for low risk for reasonable profit. i think the main thing to be taken from this thread is a couple of small points that havent really been emphasised... human emotion its imperative we dont alow it to cloud our judgement as this is where .... 99% trading mistakes come from i find.

Chuck

[Crazeewon]

Hi Ron, I know you're right, I should stop when things go pear-shaped and the losses mount up.
Hindsight has often told me this..... but do I listen.....do I ferk

People look for the secrets that will make them successful traders but I think most of us already know.
It's making ourselves concentrate, be patient and disciplined in using that knowledge that's the hard part.
How many posts do you read where people advise newcomers to get out and accept small losses AND THEN admit they did the exact opposite themselves the very same day.

Happy trading!

[Crazeewon]

Hi Temujin, thanks for your post.

I've never used stakes much higher than £3 so far but I can see it will be a whole different ballgame using larger stakes. Often I can nip into a gap in the market with my £2 and I'm matched on both sides quicker than the eye can see (when using tick offset). This ain't going to happen when betting 100's or 1,000's but that's not going to worry me for a few months/years

Today is the first day of my new trading life.........The Disciplined Crazeewon!.........watch this space!

Cheers

[Temujin]

Yeah, skimmed over this. I think to summarise some points made, and put my spin (skimmed over, so maybe just repeating), daily profits don't really mean much. A day is nothing more than a short period of your trading session, which imho lasts from your first trade ever, til your last trade ever. A day is just a bigger timescale of a single market.
A month is similar again, however since you have bills and such to pay, you should be looking to be pretty consistant over a week, definately a fortnight, in what you can expect.

As for returns, it really depends on your bank, and the markets you play.
I used a 2000 liability to make 10,000 on a tennis match. Turned over bulk with that liabilty, but that is what it is about. At the same time, last night I turned over about 25k using a 1k liability on AFL, and made 15 dollars. As long as the average is decent, then you should be happy.
But, the point here, is that returns depend on the market size. If your bank is 100k, and you are playing in an AUS dog market, then there is a fair chance your bank is about 20* the size of total traded in a market. Pretty clear that you won't make a high % on your bank here.
So using a 2 pound stake, it is much easier to realise a high return rate, as you are guaranteed that when you enter a trade, your full stake is at play, and on closing a trade, you won't affect the market, as such will get the best value that you request. Stake is too high, you will lose efficiency because you need to close your trade.

So definately don't look at making 100% of your 2 pound stakes now, as the equivalent of increasing your stakes to 2000 and making 100% of your stake.

I think a well regarded figure, assuming you are using a sensible stake for the market, is around 10% of your bank per day, so using 2000, is definately acceptable to make 10%. Any good, and you should be able to make 20-25% though. But then, 5% is ok as well.
If you are profitable, and can afford to live, then that is a pretty good start. Not many people can claim that....

Good luck with it.

[Crazeewon]

I think my trading's coming on ok, I understand the basics and I seem to learn more everyday. I think I was expecting too much profit from small stakes but from what people say, I seem to be doing ok. My big fault is accepting losses but I think that's a biggy for most people.

[ron]

On another note Crazeewon have you a set amount you are willing to lose daily (every one wants £0) as i think its important as setting a daily profit target, i have a self instilled stop loss for the day which if i hit i stop, as it will have ment i have a hot a run of losse's and nothing is going my way and thus losses get bigger that said a few weeks ago i was just £1 short of said stop loss then turned the corner and ended up with a small profit.
But in answer to your question, i take any profit and i am happy with it from a £1 a day to £100+ as this is a hobby to me and i want it to remain as such .

[eggman]

Another way is % of bank increase, hitting 10% increase is also a good sign.

As ever though try to think longterm, working out averages over long periods is the best way to see how well you are doing, rather than basing too much emphasis on one day, or worse still one market!

Is that 10% a day? For me, a 10% increase in bank in a day would be a good day (they don't happen that often, though!)

I agree that you shouldn't put too much emphasis on what you want to achieve on a daily basis, especially if you're using min stakes. As I've said before, focus on what you're doing and get good at that and the results will follow. That said, you should record what you do.

As nigelbleddfa says, try not to lose, but be prepared to take losses. Trading to me feels a bit like walking a tightrope sometimes. There's a fine line between getting it right and wrong, you've just got to try and get on that rope and stay on!