Got a call from Betfair

[TaveMan]

Betfair just called me and asked me to stop trading Aus NSW races I am costing them money because of NSW racings new decision to charge on turn over. If the other states decide to do the same thing what are they going to do ban traders on horses? Which then makes me think is there any point continuing on AUS horse racing.

As usual when I start to get good at something there's always a obstacle in the road.

[Temujin]

Yeah crazy. Upped the commission to 6.5% then banned trading NSW, WITHOUT TELLING ANYBODY....

No clue why they didn't just dump the NSW markets in protest. Have given up, and no reason the other states won't follow suit knowing that BF are weak and have no fight

[Temujin]

http://community.betfair.com/austral...vWelcomeHeader

Personally, I think BF in Australia is on its last legs. Cannot make a decision like this based on anything more than throw your arms out and grab everything you can before your ship sinks.

[LuckyYou]

So what? They can charge the users with 60% fee, but when they are charged with 60% they just sink? Pew pew!

[DJB]

Bizarre state of affairs. I received the same call advising that my trading on NSW racing was to cease immediately and if I did not comply my account would be closed!!!!!! I asked for this in writing however was told that their phone call would suffice.

Racing NSW will get what they hoped for, that is to rid NSW racing of betfair.

Whilst the fat lady hasn't started singing yet, she is certainly clearing her throat in readiness.

[blackmarket]

Just to give you guys some background (some of you will be aware).

This is of course based on the High Court decision allowing NSW to charge BF based on turnover. I know of two other States (Victoria and WA) that have pledged to go down the turnover route as well, although this will require legislation so there will be a few months before they are impacted.

We are told that BF are attempting to negotiate with all parties at the moment.

I had the call this morning too. Odd because nothing was in writing. I was told this is purely for trading, so you are OK to back at very short prices if you want to.

And as I watched NSW races today I really didn't notice a slowdown in turnover. Inplay was still OK (for Aussie standards). I really can't believe all of these bets are 'straight' and not trades.

[filthy_muck]

This really sucks. What with 6.5% commission, 20% premium charge and restricted to non-NSW my profit will be down 70% - really not worth it.

Fact they won't write it down is also a concern.
Does bookmaking count as trading?
Who really knows what the rules are now?
It this legal?


Would have been simpler to close NSW down.

Of course in 2 or 3 months the other states will be blacklisted too.

Filthy_ is Filthy!!!

[TaveMan]

Yeah i'm pretty disappointed to be honest trading AUS racing is pretty much all I do on Betfair and trading was the only reason I joined up to begin with, I might give USA a go but with the unstable starting and finishing times its not really good business or worth the time if you cant exit a trade before the race starts and living in Australia UK races are off limits being at midnight and all.

I might have a look at some other sports see what I can do with those I have done ok from NRL so I will see what I can do with a few others.

Pretty much going to expect the other states to do the same thing so trading by the end of the year on Horse racing in AUS will be no more. Sad cause I love doing it but I will rip out as much profit as I can before then.

Shit happens i'm not going to let this ruin my dream of being full time trader I will do what I figured I would do eventually and open a real time share and forex trading account.

Filthy I'm filthy with ya!

Tave

[The Geek]

I've asked Betfair to clarify a couple of bits, which I will update here whenever I get a response.

[LuckyYou]

I think that their main target is to reduce the trading in order to reduce their taxes and to show that if the tax are on turnover they will pay less in taxes! Thats why they are doing it by phone calls and there is no official statement on this.
I believe you as a players have all the right to defend yourselves and CALL YOUR GAMBLING COMMISSION AND TELL THEM WHAT BETFAIR IS DOING. NO ONE HAVE THE RIGHT TO STOP YOU TRADING, WHILE THEY WANT YOU ONLY BETTING! They can play dirty? WELL you can play dirty too!
I am really frustrated how insolent these guys can be!

[bazbaz]

I know nothing about Aussie racing but if that only makes up a small percentage of what you make money from then might not be the best idea to go to war with betfair only to be closed down and then lose access to the rest of your earnings.

Will be intesting to see what they come back with to TG. Thank God they resisted calls for a turnover based system in the UK

[blackmarket]

We are definitely confused about it down here (as you'll see if you read through the Australian betfair forum too).

The call was received by a number of people all with differing 'profiles'.

When NSW won the case, one push (from users it must be said) was to ban NSW racing - and demonstrate to the rest of Australia the likely flow of money to other States. Thereby hoping other states wouldn't change to a turnover model leaving NSW alienated.

Betfair would appear it wants to keep the peace with the racing industry here and hopes to negotiate where it can.

However this latest approach seems odd, especially as nothing is in writing.

[TaveMan]

Thanks Mr Geek.

[blackmarket]

Here's an opinion piece from a fellow trader on the decision:

http://www.theprofits.com.au/?p=2204

[1/4 of a millionaire fund]

I guess on the plus side ******'s out of a job and will be on the next boat back to blighty

[LuckyYou]

Btw increasing the commission to 6.5% changes nothing to a premium charge payer. In fact even 10% commission wouldn't be a problem because he has to generate 20% commission - if he can't do that - it doesn't matter how much he will pay in regular commission - the other 13.5% (if he pay 6.5%) would be received later as a premium charge, which means if you are succesfull trader it doesn't really matter

[1/4 of a millionaire fund]

Originally Posted by LuckyYou

Btw increasing the commission to 6.5% changes nothing to a premium charge payer. In fact even 10% commission wouldn't be a problem because he has to generate 20% commission - if he can't do that - it doesn't matter how much he will pay in regular commission - the other 13.5% (if he pay 6.5%) would be received later as a premium charge, which means if you are succesfull trader it doesn't really matter

It does make a difference due to way PC is calculated using implied comms not actual comms paid.

[Shaun]

The other issue is that all the other states will adopt this same position and i can see sports doing the same when they see the money they can make from not just betfair but bookmakers with the turn over tax.

Trading is finished in Aus markets but will it stop there?

Betfair will look at any account and if that account costs them money they will advised the holder of there options, so even if you are not trading you could still have your account closed.

[TaveMan]

Thought I'd list the forbidden tracks for those trading today. 3 out of 14.
Sorry if i missed any.

Kembla Grange
Lismore
Rosehill

[filthy_muck]

Well I kept out of NSW as instructed but I observed closely.

Clearly the high volume low margin bots were still in operation on NSW so I'm wondering whether only Aussie account holders were targetted in this attack?

Did any UK based, Oz-market players get similar calls?

Was this some bizarre experiment?

Didn't look too different to me, to "normal" - clearly plenty of trading going on.

One thing I didn't lilke was seeing opportunities pass me bye.

Won a drink but is one ever enough?


Filthy_ remains Filthy.