The 5 Stages To Betfair Trading - Page 3

Paolo · 5th May 2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychoff

There must be more than 6 steps of trading...

I'm climbing, climbing, climbing, but still too far away from the top.

No, I disagree with you. Step 5 is the top. Everything is right in the article, I went from the 1st step to the 5th. I'm auto-trader, I don't think, I feel market.

Morgans Choice · 5th May 2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo

No, I disagree with you. Step 5 is the top. Everything is right in the article, I went from the 1st step to the 5th. I'm auto-trader, I don't think, I feel market.

Hi Gents,

it's probably worth pointing out that, some people may be unable to reach stage 5. I include myself in that category, after six years trading I have been unable to progress beyond stage 4. The markets are still a jumble of information, on the rare occasions I decide to try and "read" them, I get mauled. It's not a big deal to me, I get pleasure out of analysing and then producing an appropriate method,

cheers, MC

bazbaz · 5th May 2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychoff

I'm climbing, climbing, climbing, but still too far away from the top.

Cordoba,
Distant and lonely

Black pony, full moon
Olives in my saddle bag
As well as I know the roads
I will never reach Cordoba

Over the hills
Through the winds
Death keeps watch on me
From Cordoba's towers

Ah, such a long way to go!
Ah, my spirited pony!
But Death awaits me
Before I ever reach Cordoba

Cordoba,
Distant and lonely

guernseyw · 7th May 2012, 10:31 AM

most definately stuck @ 2

built up a comfortable bank ( for me anyway) only to go OTT on the cricket (20/20) and golf (pga)yesterday and lose 1/3rd of it

just gave myself a good talking to and quite happy increasing my bank 1- 1 1/2% each time

like they say it's not a sprint ,

BUT why does your mindset change when you've got a very comfortable bank to work with ( turn £30 into £378 in 10 days grabbing £2's ere £3's there with odd couple i fancied winning £30 )

back to my drawing board with 250 to start the week off

g/luck ppl hope ya all have a profitable time

sagatz · 24th July 2012, 02:02 PM

I actually think about two things when someone of the real traders here say something like that : "I feel trade" - the first one is, those many people who all the time told me i'm crazy and stupid gambler, and this is not possible to "bet for a livin" - ARE WRONG. It can be done if someone does it allready. But the same time, the other thought get up in me and say to me " yea, this is possible, but i'm so far away from that right now, and looks like never be there - to feel the market, and to prove to everyone with real example, and mostly prove to me that "i finaly do it, and don't wory about bad luck, becouse i know what i'm doing". Hope and a lil'bit despair at the same time, but still will'n

Jambolino · 6th February 2013, 09:05 AM

Could somone tell me if this would work.....

If I lay the 3rd favourite at 6.0 30 seconds before the race and let it go in play, half way through the race he is lagging and and up to 20 then falls right to the back of the filed and is up to 50.0, could I not just green up and get out for a bit profit?

I may be completely wrong but to just trying to understand it all abit better

Would I be able to just hit the hedge figure or would I not get that hedged bet backed?

Thanks

WhyAlwaysMe · 6th February 2013, 09:43 AM

The situation is that these prices change extremely fast in-play and there is a delay of a couple of seconds before your order hits the market. So were the first two favs to fall your hedge won't get filled as the price will be back in to 20 or whatever. The other issue is you can only bet what the market can stand.

In theory you are correct but the practise is a little different I believe. It's tricky because the people at the track are many seconds ahead and what with the Betfair delay that 50 may be long gone when your hedge goes in.

Best to have a dabble with small stakes, I've certainly been taught a few harsh lessons from in-play, have had my

a few times

. If you accept that everything can and will go wrong that is a good starting point.

shadowninja · 6th February 2013, 09:58 AM

It's when you get an illogical feeling to pull an order that you have sitting on the ladder which you do then seconds later, the market spikes against what would have been your position, that you're either stage 5 or had at least better start running from the Spanish Inquisition.

JJBungles · 6th February 2013, 05:46 PM

@Jambolino,

The problem with your theory is you need someone to take the back bet at 50. By the time the price goes to up 50, everyone pulls their money off the table for that particular horse, this is called lack of liquidity to get your hedge at 50. There is no guarantee someone will be there to match your bet (greater fool).

All you can do in this situation is hope your lay works out or you place a stop in the more liquid areas. This is where the use of the ladder is key so you can see where the liquidity is. Once again use the Back/Lay monies you see as rough orders of magnitude because bettors/bots are placng and removing orders all the time. Plus in the impacted areas you may have to wait in line and the price could move before its your turn to get matched.

In play is very fast moving and not for the faint of heart. Try it out on demo to see how your theory works. And use the 100 bets rule. Make at least 100 bets and see if you end up with a profit or a loss.

KR,

JJ

Jambolino · 6th February 2013, 09:20 PM

Ye I get what your saying

Lost a fiver at kempton today, layed the horse and it must of taken some speed mid race!! Came from the back and won! My get out quick bet didn't get matched quick enough and it got suspended!

You live and learn right?

Also... Why is ther a delay when it's in play? Is this a feature of the toy or is it just a betfair feature? Anyway to stop or reduce it?

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice... Gradually learning

JJBungles · 6th February 2013, 09:44 PM

@Jambolino,

I am not technically astute to provide even a reasonable answer about response and speed. I know it is very complex and there is possibly information on this and other forums and more than likely you may need to pay betfair for the priveledge.

Re: Your loss of a fiver.

Please use the betfair training mode by logging out and restarting the Toy. Just below the password field is a drop down box. This is where you can select betfair training mode or betfair live account mode. Use the same username and password in training as you do in live. This way you can keep your money and try to sharpen your strategy in training mode. I actually learned the liquidity issue by using the training mode.

I hope this helps you.

KR,

JJ

WhyAlwaysMe · 6th February 2013, 10:41 PM

The bet delay is Betfair's, it is an attempt to reduce the advantage of guys at the track.

AGT software is reputed to be the fastest around, the reason for the non match of your bet is because of the delay in the pictures and the fact these horses are moving rather fast.

The second half of a race in-play is highly dangerous if you don't have expert knowledge of some kind.

Pirus · 30th March 2013, 02:52 PM

The info is from Jared Tendler who is a sports psychologist, I have his Mental game of poker book and the exact same is in there but obvously this has been altered for trading. Very good book to help you deal with the mental side of gambling.

6th February 2013, 05:46 PM	#49
JJBungles Novice Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 18 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Liquidity is the key / finding the greater fool @Jambolino, The problem with your theory is you need someone to take the back bet at 50. By the time the price goes to up 50, everyone pulls their money off the table for that particular horse, this is called lack of liquidity to get your hedge at 50. There is no guarantee someone will be there to match your bet (greater fool). All you can do in this situation is hope your lay works out or you place a stop in the more liquid areas. This is where the use of the ladder is key so you can see where the liquidity is. Once again use the Back/Lay monies you see as rough orders of magnitude because bettors/bots are placng and removing orders all the time. Plus in the impacted areas you may have to wait in line and the price could move before its your turn to get matched. In play is very fast moving and not for the faint of heart. Try it out on demo to see how your theory works. And use the 100 bets rule. Make at least 100 bets and see if you end up with a profit or a loss. KR, JJ

6th February 2013, 09:44 PM	#51
JJBungles Novice Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 18 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Next time use betfair training mode @Jambolino, I am not technically astute to provide even a reasonable answer about response and speed. I know it is very complex and there is possibly information on this and other forums and more than likely you may need to pay betfair for the priveledge. Re: Your loss of a fiver. Please use the betfair training mode by logging out and restarting the Toy. Just below the password field is a drop down box. This is where you can select betfair training mode or betfair live account mode. Use the same username and password in training as you do in live. This way you can keep your money and try to sharpen your strategy in training mode. I actually learned the liquidity issue by using the training mode. I hope this helps you. KR, JJ

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

7th May 2012, 10:31 AM	#44
guernseyw Virgin Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	most definately stuck @ 2 built up a comfortable bank ( for me anyway) only to go OTT on the cricket (20/20) and golf (pga)yesterday and lose 1/3rd of it just gave myself a good talking to and quite happy increasing my bank 1- 1 1/2% each time like they say it's not a sprint , BUT why does your mindset change when you've got a very comfortable bank to work with ( turn £30 into £378 in 10 days grabbing £2's ere £3's there with odd couple i fancied winning £30 ) back to my drawing board with 250 to start the week off g/luck ppl hope ya all have a profitable time

24th July 2012, 02:02 PM	#45
sagatz Virgin Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	I actually think about two things when someone of the real traders here say something like that : "I feel trade" - the first one is, those many people who all the time told me i'm crazy and stupid gambler, and this is not possible to "bet for a livin" - ARE WRONG. It can be done if someone does it allready. But the same time, the other thought get up in me and say to me " yea, this is possible, but i'm so far away from that right now, and looks like never be there - to feel the market, and to prove to everyone with real example, and mostly prove to me that "i finaly do it, and don't wory about bad luck, becouse i know what i'm doing". Hope and a lil'bit despair at the same time, but still will'n

6th February 2013, 09:05 AM	#46
Jambolino Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Could somone tell me if this would work..... If I lay the 3rd favourite at 6.0 30 seconds before the race and let it go in play, half way through the race he is lagging and and up to 20 then falls right to the back of the filed and is up to 50.0, could I not just green up and get out for a bit profit? I may be completely wrong but to just trying to understand it all abit better Would I be able to just hit the hedge figure or would I not get that hedged bet backed? Thanks

6th February 2013, 09:43 AM	#47
WhyAlwaysMe Forum Guru Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 695 Thanks: 1,005 Thanked 368 Times in 234 Posts	The situation is that these prices change extremely fast in-play and there is a delay of a couple of seconds before your order hits the market. So were the first two favs to fall your hedge won't get filled as the price will be back in to 20 or whatever. The other issue is you can only bet what the market can stand. In theory you are correct but the practise is a little different I believe. It's tricky because the people at the track are many seconds ahead and what with the Betfair delay that 50 may be long gone when your hedge goes in. Best to have a dabble with small stakes, I've certainly been taught a few harsh lessons from in-play, have had my a few times . If you accept that everything can and will go wrong that is a good starting point.

6th February 2013, 09:58 AM	#48
shadowninja Forum Guru Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: London, England Posts: 1,919 Thanks: 903 Thanked 1,088 Times in 598 Posts	It's when you get an illogical feeling to pull an order that you have sitting on the ladder which you do then seconds later, the market spikes against what would have been your position, that you're either stage 5 or had at least better start running from the Spanish Inquisition.

6th February 2013, 09:20 PM	#50
Jambolino Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Ye I get what your saying Lost a fiver at kempton today, layed the horse and it must of taken some speed mid race!! Came from the back and won! My get out quick bet didn't get matched quick enough and it got suspended! You live and learn right? Also... Why is ther a delay when it's in play? Is this a feature of the toy or is it just a betfair feature? Anyway to stop or reduce it? Thanks again for everyone's help and advice... Gradually learning

6th February 2013, 10:41 PM	#52
WhyAlwaysMe Forum Guru Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 695 Thanks: 1,005 Thanked 368 Times in 234 Posts	The bet delay is Betfair's, it is an attempt to reduce the advantage of guys at the track. AGT software is reputed to be the fastest around, the reason for the non match of your bet is because of the delay in the pictures and the fact these horses are moving rather fast. The second half of a race in-play is highly dangerous if you don't have expert knowledge of some kind.

30th March 2013, 02:52 PM	#53
Pirus Virgin Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The info is from Jared Tendler who is a sports psychologist, I have his Mental game of poker book and the exact same is in there but obvously this has been altered for trading. Very good book to help you deal with the mental side of gambling.