charging for the toy

[The Geek]

http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6348

[Portman]

I love the constant influx of fresh victims like arthur

[Temujin]

Originally Posted by arthur

Yes but it IS only a toy,and it is used for doing toy things..trading is a toy thing..no bugger makes any money out of it...show me the bloke who says he makes long term consistent profits out of horse trading and I will show you a liar.All this tripe about having to have the right "mindset" do me a favour!!!

Like so much else(poker being an outstanding example) the system can only operate on a constant influx of fresh victims.As with poker they will tell you that by applying stats and brains and the old chestnut...the right mindset..that you will make megabuks.
It's a well know market ploy that the bookies/casinos/poker rooms/whatever make their fortunes by usurping the cash of those victims who have bought into a delusion...the delusion is that of being able to crack it.
Trading is the same.

Anyway back to the question is the geek telling us he is going to start charging for a fully fledged professional investment tool(which it isn't) or that he is going to start charging for a toy(which is what it is)

art(jim)

You can really believe whatever you like. Personally I don't really care too much about other peoples opinions, especially people I have never met. If I did happen to care about other peoples opinions, I would have believed that I was a moron for thinking that one could make money gambling and still dead broke and going nowhere.

And I don't believe you need a constant influx of new players in the market. All you need is whoever is in the market at that particular time to not be as right as you. Doesn't matter if that person is a genius or a moron, people have differing opinions all the time, and nobody is right 100% of the time. 1 day I might make money off somebody making 1 mil + per annum on here, the next day he might get me. As long as I do better when I win than when I lose I don't care who is matching my bets, as long as there is money in the market for me to disagree with.

As for you though, you have your opinion, and people that are close minded rarely get anywhere that nobody has gone before, so I believe it is very true that you will never profit from anything gambling. This site is designed for people to learn off others, whether it be how to improve, or how they are very unlikely to make it. Fact of the matter is most won't. 95% I believe is the figure generally used to describe the unsuccesful when it comes to gambling, whether it be trading, punting, or whatever other form of speculation. Guaranteed though, that in the 5% that do make it, not one of them has the opinion that they will never succeed.

So whether you think this "Toy" is ever used to make money or not is irrelevant, all you really need to know is that it costs money to make, and make available. Don't know many people that make money out of Windows 7 by using it, not sure of many that make money playing Sim City, but you can bet your ass that the people that make that available to others need to get something back in return. In this case, all The Geek is asking for is time and users. If we can't provide them then I think it is only fair that he gets something in return in the form of money to at least recover some of his time and money, no doubt plenty of both invested in this.

Anyway, have a good day. Although, with an attitude like yours, I bet you don't agree that anybody will have a good day with all the negatives going on in the world. Too much sand around your head to see what is available out there. Opportunities everywhere, the best ones often in the most obscure unthought of places. But be a follower, it is your destiny.

[thecorsican]

Arthur=The ****** ?????

[Southwest]

Yep, nobody makes any money. What's this premium charge I keep hearing about then?

[LuckyYou]

Originally Posted by Southwest

Yep, nobody makes any money. What's this premium charge I keep hearing about then?

Yeah Its making me sick too! I am trying to reduce it to minimum from so many months and I still can't reach even 10% commission generated

[gtgary]

Hi, This is the first time that I have ever posted a message on any message board of any kind, but I would like to say thanks to the geek for creating such an excellent and interesting toy. Although I am very new to the whole trading idea, and to be honest don't really know most of the things that it does, I do find it a fascinating tool to watch the odds fluctuation. I don't do Twitter or Facebook, but would like to say thanks on here. I for one hope that it stays free. Regards gtgary.

[lcredd]

I hope it stays free. However, if I made TheToy...

[bettheopositeofwhatyoudo]

I do believe the overexcitement/overexalting over TOY would lead to a harm (mean: 'becoming paid')
And even being BEST, Toy is not irreplaceable!
In case only 5% make consistent money over Toy... many will migrate!
How would you keep the rest 95%? What would keep 'em?

And how come Betfair itself does not react towards taking over TOY and in such a way improving its manageability !?

[HymaKhok]

I think there should be a charge for using the Toy. It's a product, that people want to use, in a market place where other products charge. It requires ongoing support to keep going so pay for it. It doesn't have to be £30 per month. I pay for another product that's less than £10 per month and I have no problem doing this. I make money, not a lot though, but if I didn't, I dont think a few quid a month on a hobby I spend time on most days is a lot to ask.

HM

[Prot]

I can't understand why anyone would pay for a Fiat when they could get a free Ferrari... Obviously they don't know about the toy.
I found out about it on Betfair's forums.

[iamkimble]

Originally Posted by Prot

I can't understand why anyone would pay for a Fiat when they could get a free Ferrari... Obviously they don't know about the toy.
I found out about it on Betfair's forums.

ditto

more then willing to pay or donate when required

[HymaKhok]

Originally Posted by Prot

I can't understand why anyone would pay for a Fiat when they could get a free Ferrari... Obviously they don't know about the toy.
I found out about it on Betfair's forums.

I can chip the fiat

[arthur]

Hi All,


On his splash screen the geek says
I think the industry is over populated by Blaggers, Chancers and Get Rich Quick marketers who continually make outrageous claims and wave cherry picked winning screen shots & videos in your face in order to sell you some mediocre, or completely rubbish products.

Now when I question the idea that profits are to be made out of trading he refers me to a clssic"after the event" posting...surely the oldest trick in the book.
Somebody said that i am a disgruntled failed gambler...you are absolutely spot on,but at least I have had the guts to admit it to myself that the only winners in gambling are the oddsmakers,software vendors,media pundits and journalist(and lets not forget the tipsters).
I came on here to explore yet another "angle" for gambling...that of trading..but it doesn't take an einstein that what we are dealing with here is flip of the coin luck and very little else.

Jim
Arty(jim)

[The Geek]

Simple maths on the highest commission rate. We both make an even money £1 bet on the toss of a coin. I win you lose. I win 95p, you lose £1, Betfair makes 5p.

So if everyone was equal, we'd all be losing 5p on every bet to Betfair.

For me to break even on Betfair long term, I have to be winning just over £1.05 for every £1 I lose. The more I play, the lower my commission rate, so those odds move slightly in my favour.

Now you say about Keefter challenge being after the fact. Firstly, I have been known Keefter since before TT launched, and he is one of the few real professional traders I am personally acquainted with. He is not interested in selling shit, and just happily plugs away day after day for considerable hours to make his living.

The challenge was not after the fact, as it was announced in advance what he would be doing, and I have no reasons to doubt his reasons for doing it { or his other 2 £5 challenges }, nor his capabilities as a trader. { Ditto the charity challenge here, as none of these guys are flogging anything either. }

Are there more losers than winners? Yes, simple maths tells you Betfair wouldn't be in it unless they were making money. Is it a fun game to play & do some make a good living from it? Yes. { And that is all I am pointing out here. }

[Temujin]

Originally Posted by arthur

Hi All,


On his splash screen the geek says
I think the industry is over populated by Blaggers, Chancers and Get Rich Quick marketers who continually make outrageous claims and wave cherry picked winning screen shots & videos in your face in order to sell you some mediocre, or completely rubbish products.

Now when I question the idea that profits are to be made out of trading he refers me to a clssic"after the event" posting...surely the oldest trick in the book.
Somebody said that i am a disgruntled failed gambler...you are absolutely spot on,but at least I have had the guts to admit it to myself that the only winners in gambling are the oddsmakers,software vendors,media pundits and journalist(and lets not forget the tipsters).
I came on here to explore yet another "angle" for gambling...that of trading..but it doesn't take an einstein that what we are dealing with here is flip of the coin luck and very little else.

Jim
Arty(jim)

I think it doesn't take "an einstein" to realise that if you are selling something to the masses, even if you used to be profitable, the sheer weight of numbers of money now doing the same thing makes it a losing proposition. People that are onto a winner don't share their secrets, or they lose their edge. Simple as that.

You are seriously naive to think that people are doing this full time and just throwing money away. How are they eating, paying their rent, affording to leave the house? Where did they get all this money that they are just throwing away?

We are not dealing with flips of coins here. We are dealing with events that have a huge number of variables. You have no idea how to sum up those variables. We get that. But just because you can't, doesn't mean that nobody can.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226229779154

[ForeTwo]

Not likely to be a popular opinion but I would be happy to pay for the Toy.

I am not sure we can fully appreciate how much development and how many hours has gone into the Toy and I am very grateful for the increased competition in the market the and innovation that has resulted.

.....briefly reading some of the "troll" posts, sports trading like any other form of trading is a zero sum game #manUP?

[lcredd]

Originally Posted by ForeTwo

I am not sure we can fully appreciate how much development and how many hours has gone into the Toy.

Hypothetically; If there are 1000 users (I think there are more), and 500 are willing to pay £5 per month (both are underestimated numbers), then The Geek has been giving away a product worth £30,000 a year, for absolutely nothing. No fame. No Fortune. No hidden agenda. No reason! NOTHING!

Considering our whole reason for trading is to make as much ££ as possible, how can anyone criticize The Geek for asking us to click 'like' or 'retweet,' or write somewhere 'use AGT, it rocks!' ???

Would you give a (hypothetical) £30,000 per year program away for free?
I wouldn't.

[Portman]

The program is fast, it's error-free, it's freeware, has more than we need to make money.
Have you ever used freeware programs not made by a corporation?

[lcredd]

Originally Posted by Portman

The program is fast, it's error-free, it's freeware, has more than we need to make money.
Have you ever used freeware programs not made by a corporation?

Also, whenever I've had a problem and put it on the forum, The Geek or a foum member has responded and fixed it within hours.