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gitsurf
3rd November 2010, 10:43 AM
Hi guys,

Apologies if this is in the wrong section; wasn't sure where to put it.

I was wondering if anyone knows much about how Betfair calculates your place in the queue when waiting for a bet to be matched?

I trade tennis pre-match, so it's useful to know where I am in the queue - i.e. how close I am to getting a price matched. I've been using the traded price column to work it out - e.g. say there's 1k sat waiting to get matched at a certain price, and the traded price column shows 1k has previously been matched. If I then put an order for 100 quid in at that price, i.e. at the 'end' of the queue, once the traded price column reaches 2k, I should be at the front of the queue, right?

I've had several instances recently where this hasn't happened; way more has got matched than should have been without me getting to the front of the queue. Just wondering if I'm being a complete moron and misinterpreting the numbers?

Knight Rider
3rd November 2010, 10:51 AM
First come ,first served i believe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbXiECmCZ94). No special priority. Orders for tennis inrunning take 5 seconds to reach the queue, those under 2 take 15 seconds, are you allowing the time delay?

Knight Rider
3rd November 2010, 11:04 AM
First come ,first served i believe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbXiECmCZ94). No special priority. Orders for tennis inrunning take 5 seconds to reach the queue, those under 2 take 15 seconds, are you allowing the time delay?

Just to add for anyone unsure that is the case with ALL Betfair API products, though the TOY is the best on the market in terms of reliability, price and customability imo

gitsurf
3rd November 2010, 12:04 PM
First come ,first served i believe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbXiECmCZ94). No special priority. Orders for tennis inrunning take 5 seconds to reach the queue, those under 2 take 15 seconds, are you allowing the time delay?

Ta for the reply - thought it was. As it's pre-match there's no time delay, so it can't be that.

As an example, in Federer's recent match against Dolgopolov, I put an order for 200 quid in at 1.07. There was 45k there waiting to be matched, and 43k had already been matched. An hour or so later the odds hadn't moved, something like 100k had been matched, but I was still unmatched....?

It's happened in a couple of matches since - all with a favourite under 1.1 and with very high liquidity - I was just wondering if Betfair 'unofficially' gives priority to bigger customers or something?

Knight Rider
3rd November 2010, 12:29 PM
Ta for the reply - thought it was. As it's pre-match there's no time delay, so it can't be that.



Sorry , missed the pre match bit in your OP:o

Just had a quick look on a tennis match , stuck 2 to lay at 1.3 and the total matched went up 4 , did it again , same thing. Seems they are including both back and lay figures in the total matched. Would explain the example you gave.

TRADER68
3rd November 2010, 01:47 PM
Ta for the reply - thought it was. As it's pre-match there's no time delay, so it can't be that.

As an example, in Federer's recent match against Dolgopolov, I put an order for 200 quid in at 1.07. There was 45k there waiting to be matched, and 43k had already been matched. An hour or so later the odds hadn't moved, something like 100k had been matched, but I was still unmatched....?

It's happened in a couple of matches since - all with a favourite under 1.1 and with very high liquidity - I was just wondering if Betfair 'unofficially' gives priority to bigger customers or something?

I could be wrong but i think what you are describing may be related to markets betfair cross match or something along those lines.Someone may explain this better and there are related posts on the forum.In certain markets backing one outcome is the same as laying the other outcome.So what appears unavailable on one side is available by using the opposite side. You can see this if looking at money traded and available.Hope i havent confused you as i am beggining to confuse myself:D.If you search you will find a more detailed explanation.:)

1/4 of a millionaire fund
3rd November 2010, 01:58 PM
Ta for the reply - thought it was. As it's pre-match there's no time delay, so it can't be that.

As an example, in Federer's recent match against Dolgopolov, I put an order for 200 quid in at 1.07. There was 45k there waiting to be matched, and 43k had already been matched. An hour or so later the odds hadn't moved, something like 100k had been matched, but I was still unmatched....?

It's happened in a couple of matches since - all with a favourite under 1.1 and with very high liquidity - I was just wondering if Betfair 'unofficially' gives priority to bigger customers or something?

TRADER68's correct looks like betfairs cross matching at work, in your example they'll give priority to lay bets on the other player at 15 as they create an overround book for betfair to steal some pennies from the matched bets

Caan Berry
3rd November 2010, 08:28 PM
ok that last bit confused me a little so ill have to read up.... i sometimes put in 'long term' trades say overnight and find when i come to trade out in the morning ill click a price where there is money waiting to be matched, and as if by magic the money that was there vanishes when i click leaving my exit sat there on its todd.... i thought it was just coincidence the first couple of times but it seems when there's not alot of money about... say 9am its alot more prone to happening, could this also be bf trying to create prices whilst giving themselves the edge??? that or im going mad

petecuff
4th November 2010, 03:14 PM
My quick additions especially re using the amount traded at a price to monitor the place in the queue: that's the information I use too. The original poster is right in their logic of if there's a 'queue' of 1k when they fire in their bet, that the 1k needs to go before their bet will be matched. What they haven't quite got right is that the amount showing in the traded column is in effect multiplied by two: when a 100 bet is matched at say odds of 1.8, the matched figure goes up by 200, not 100 (to reflect that the 100 back side and 100 lay side have been 'matched').

Took me a while to spot this, but once you know, it becomes very easy to judge where you are in the queue.

On a quick side note, just to add to TG's ever-expanding to do list from us feature-hungry, don't-know-how-good-we've-got-it punters, it would seem that this approximation of how far off the front of the queue your submitted bets are could be built into one of the ladders somehow...

I'll stop now. :)

Pete

gitsurf
4th November 2010, 04:39 PM
Thanks for the responses all - really appreciate the help. Pete - I'm going to second your suggestion - would be a really useful tool for a lot of pre-match / longish-term markets. Don't think anything else out there has such a function?

Temujin
5th November 2010, 03:30 AM
I think it could easily be done, as a rough guide anyway, but there is always ways to do things, and at the end of the day, I think if it is not accurate, then it is unlikely to be entered. I mean there is no way for the Toy (I don't think) to know if money has been removed from in front of you or not, they only know when it is taken. But I guess most of you would take that as a positive.

Point being though, this is more likely to happen if it is a serious suggestion, well thought out, with examples of how it could be done and what indicators are being looked at.

Here is my take on this. Not a suggestion, demand, requirement, or anything. Just reading this thread, and this is how I would go about it, if I felt the need.

There could be a color shading involved. Stick with traffic lights. Green, through orange, through red. Could set it up at either end. Eg, if you are last in the queue, you are red. If more money gets added, that starts its way through the spectrum on its way to green.

Basically, it could base calculations on the size of your stake, and base it on the first bet you placed at those odds, and compare that with how much money is there in the market. Could also have something based on average traded amount per second or something in comparison to your stake.

So. You have 10k at 2.00. You place a bet of 1k. This is shaded dark red, as it is not ready to "go" yet. There is 11k there, and you are at the back of the queue.
5k gets traded at that price, 5k gets added as well. You are now approximately 6k in, out of 11k. Orange shading.

I think something like this is the only real way you can go about it, because numbers cannot be accurate because there is too much you don't know. I mean .01 seconds before your bet hits the market, 25k may make it there. This would make any numbers useless. Wouldn't help the colors much either, but you would have a rough idea that maybe you were there first, maybe you weren't.

So. If you have 25k in market, you put 5k in. Next call, there is 10k in, and 20k gets added. There is now 30k in, but you know you are in front of 20k of it, or green tinge of shading.

That is my take on it anyway. But basically, because it cannot be accurate, I am not sure it will ever see the light of day, no matter how one went about it.